What will happen if China war with Japan? - Page 6

**astralis** · 10-15-2006, 12:37 PM

argon,

Quote:

But get over it, we're not so vengeful to Japan unlike China or even SK, perhaps because we are geographically separated and we rely on Japanese electronics lol.

I think it's because China and SK are fast growing country and they rely on the people's nationalism to build their nation and use the nation's momentum. And all these debates are just the proof that chinese, koreans, or even the japs are highly influenced by the mass nation-scale propaganda of nationalism and patriotism. Why would people demand war? it's just the product of your government propaganda...

i would argue the reason why indonesia is not so vengeful is because the japanese were "only" there for around 4 years. in both china and SK the japanese were busy killing, torturing, fomenting "incidents", enslaving, and raping for ~20-50 years (former being china, the latter being SK).

certainly nationalism is a product of propaganda, because nationalism is socially-constructed anyway. but that's true of all nations, and not just china/SK.

ArGoN · 10-16-2006, 00:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astralis

i would argue the reason why indonesia is not so vengeful is because the japanese were "only" there for around 4 years. in both china and SK the japanese were busy killing, torturing, fomenting "incidents", enslaving, and raping for ~20-50 years (former being china, the latter being SK).

We still believe that the 3.5 years of Japanese invasion is much worse than the 3.5 centuries of Dutch colonization. Or put it this way, after 3.5 centuries of slavery, racism, torturing, raping by the Dutch colonials we can forgive them. (no, 'forgive' is not the right word, perhaps 'let things passed by and move on')

Quote:

Originally Posted by astralis

certainly nationalism is a product of propaganda, because nationalism is socially-constructed anyway. but that's true of all nations, and not just china/SK.

But in the case of China/SK, nationalism gets pretty strong but not yet as strong as nationalism in Nazi's era. I agree, other countries also have nationalism and even fundamental extremism to their belief and I'm afraid that the nationalism might be use as a weapon of war just like in the previous WWs.

essay · 10-16-2006, 10:18 AM

You are right.How could jews wage war on Germany WHOSE GOVERNMENT HAD MADE APOLOGIZE SINCERELY not only to jews but also to all victims punished and tortured by NAZI GERMANY.But japanese made no public apologize to chinese victims,and futhermore,they distort history rather than tell the truth to their descendants.

Quote:

Originally Posted by glow

Sooooo...... Do you think jews should wage war on German familys cause their family members we're killed by Germans? Those German familys. I really doubt Germans think back to their family members in WWII as villains.

My family left Russia because of the Bolsheviks but you don't seem me wanting to destroy Russia either. I'de worry more about how much of an ecological disaster your country is or how in fact your ruleing class is screwing your countrymen over than how Japanese acted in WWII

essay · 10-16-2006, 10:34 AM

Hi officer,i used to regard you as a respected soldier.but what you have said is really disgusting.You are an absolute white racism and narrow-minded nationalism of white ally.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Your biggest fault thus far is posting false information.

Then learn about how this forum function. It functions on verifiable facts; not
on what you want things to be.

That's their problem, not yours. Don't make it your problem

Oh horse pucky, they can't hurt you and they know they can't you.

Because they have a treaty and because they don't want anybody else having Japan.

Get real. They've hanged Tojo.

No, they just treat Stalin as their national hero.

So you want to kill Japanese to prove you're human. I've seen this kind of hatre but at least be honest about it. You want to kill Japanese just because they're Japanese. I don't believe you for one second that you hate their war criminals. You were not even alive.

After seeing what you have posted, I assure you I know more about China's strength than you do. I've spent decades studying the PLA. Tell me, do you the difference between a Chinese brigade and a Chinese regiment? Do you know how China was prepared to fight the USSR? Do you know how the PLA fought the 1st Sino-Vietnam War? Do you know how they fought the 2nd Sino-Vietnam War? Do you know what is brigadization? Do you know how the 2nd Artillery Force plan to fight a conventional war? A nuclear war?

You're not as strong as you were in 1962.

Oh get off it, the US has no interest in overthrowing the CCP.

Nobody listens to China either. All I'm hearing is what you WISH China to be. Not what she is. When the Americans bomb your embassy in Belgrade, Yugoslavia? What happenned? Everybody said sorry - THAT'S IT. The Russians sent ONE motorized infantry company (200 soldiers) and they get to co-command a sector. The Chinese got nothing.

The EP-3 Incident. China demanded that her EEZ be respected as her territory (the Americans and everybody else ignored you), the US stop her reconaisance flights (you call them spying), the Americans are still flying. China demanded an apology. The US expressed their regrets.

China is a very important country but son, I've spent my life staring down the USSR. China doesn't scare me one bit after that.

Monte · 10-16-2006, 10:56 AM

essay,

You are wrong

HistoricalDavid · 10-16-2006, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by essay

Hi officer,i used to regard you as a respected soldier.but what you have said is really disgusting.You are an absolute white racism and narrow-minded nationalism of white ally.

I see not the remotest hint of any sort of racism - as if 'white' racism is any worse or better.

**Officer of Engineers** · 10-16-2006, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by essay

Hi officer,i used to regard you as a respected soldier.but what you have said is really disgusting.You are an absolute white racism and narrow-minded nationalism of white ally.

You liking me has nothing to do with my posting or not. If you cannot face the blunt facts as presented, you should not even consider posting in a military forum.

The Chinese wants to kill the Japanese just because they're Japanese. It's as simple as that. Yes, you can bring all the historic wrongs and the revisionism you want. But the people who done that are dead and you want to kill, rape, butcher their children.

And China is not as powerful as you think. The North Koreans have proven that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

gunnut · 10-16-2006, 14:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francois

...deep and swallow at the same time...

You perv!

highsea · 10-16-2006, 14:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by essay

...But japanese made no public apologize to chinese victims,and futhermore,they distort history rather than tell the truth to their descendants.

Well, here's a list of apologies they have made over the past 40 years or so.

Get over it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ssued_by_Japan

gunnut · 10-16-2006, 14:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by essay

Hi officer,i used to regard you as a respected soldier.but what you have said is really disgusting.You are an absolute white racism and narrow-minded nationalism of white ally.

Colonel is a Canadian and served NATO for years, but he ain't white. Therefore, he can't possibly be a racist.

**astralis** · 10-16-2006, 14:15 PM

highsea,

those half-apologies are just about worthless in chinese eyes because they are invalided by the very fact that the prime minister of japan is going to a temple that honors class-A war criminals, whose museum exonerates- nay, glorifies- japanese imperialism, militarism, and killing.

not to mention how japanese politics is hamstrung by a right-wing which believes in such a tradition...the current PM abe, for example, has moved to the center on the yasukuni issue after peddling to the right in the elections. that he even NEEDS to peddle to the right demonstrates that japan is definitely not fully reformed.

the problem with east asian nationalism is that it was created in response to outside aggression, whether it was western or not. this fosters cultural (and to a lesser extent ethnic) nationalism. in other words the whole damn place is prickly, chinese, korean, and japanese all.

highsea · 10-16-2006, 14:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astralis

...those half-apologies...

Heard it all before. I could give a sh*t if essay or anyone else wants to deny the facts.

Did you even read any of them? Here's the very first one on the list:

Quote:

29 September 1972. Prime Minister Kakuei Tanaka. "The Japanese side is keenly conscious of the responsibility for the serious damage that Japan caused in the past to the Chinese people through war, and deeply reproaches itself.

Or this one:

Quote:

25 May 1990. Prime Minister Toshiki Kaifu. "I would like to take the opportunity here to humbly reflect upon how the people of the Korean Peninsula went through unbearable pain and sorrow as a result of our country's actions during a certain period in the past and to express that we are sorry" (Summit meeting with President Roh Tae Woo in Japan

That's an apology. Fact is, Japan has apologized over and over, they were nuked twice, occupied, etc.

They paid their tab. It's 50 years in the past.

Get over it.

highsea · 10-16-2006, 14:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnut

...but he ain't white. Therefore, he can't possibly be a racist.

Hehehee, that's calling a spade a spade, lol.

**astralis** · 10-16-2006, 14:34 PM

Quote:

They paid their tab. It's 50 years in the past.

Get over it.

their "tab" was equal, if not greater, than what the nazis had to pay.

and they paid a hell of a lot less.

it's not a problem of "getting over it", it's a problem of the other side SAYS one thing and DOES another.

i can fully acknowledge that the governments of both sides have played this out cynically to their advantage...but i can tell you for a fact that in terms of south korea and china, what the japanese have done to atone does not even begin to approach the magnitude of their crimes. i tell you now that if the US suffered even 1/3 of what china suffered during WWII, japan would NOT exist, perhaps not even the land-mass and certainly not the people. le may would have been run out of town for "only" advocating sending the japanese back to the stone age.

and this is from a person who has worked with japanese volunteer aid teams in china. i'm looking at this issue from a rational standpoint and not from an emotional one, the latter being a reality for ANYONE who has ever lived in east asia.

**Officer of Engineers** · 10-16-2006, 15:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highsea

Did you even read any of them? Here's the very first one on the list: Or this one: That's an apology. Fact is, Japan has apologized over and over, they were nuked twice, occupied, etc.

Those were never apologies from the Japanese government, just apologies as individuals - to escape admitting legal responsibility and therefore compensation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by highsea

They paid their tab. It's 50 years in the past.

No, they have not. It's 50 years now and the people on both sides of this issue are dying off. Is it too much to ask to make the Comfort Women and PoWs comfortable in their final years? Apparently, it is.

I ain't about to go burn down Tokyo and I can no more want to see a Japanese baby burn than a Canadian one but to see this appalling disregard for their national responsibilies, that's a disgrace.

Quote:

Originally Posted by highsea

Get over it.

Ever noticed that Japan, Taiwan, and South Korea, the US's closest allies of the region don't have an alliance between them? Even when the US got Japan to help Taiwan in case of a Mainland attack, the answer was thanks but no thanks. You cannot expect the ML Chinese to achieve what the US has failed to achieve.

10-16-2006, 10:56 AM	#80 (permalink)
Monte Regular Join Date: 04-22-06 Location: NE India Posts: 72 Country:	essay, You are wrong __________________ *A knight is sworn to valor. His heart knows only virtue. His blade defends the helpless. His sword speaks only truth. His wrath undoes the wicked.*

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
India Vs. China (borderline War)	Kontakt Era	Land Forces	548	06-18-2008 05:19 AM
Debate about China, india and US economies, by Businessweek	oneman28	Political Discussions	7	11-28-2007 08:43 AM
China's foot in India's door	Neo	International Politics	29	07-08-2007 03:31 AM
Articles and links for the Military Professional	Officer of Engineers	The Staff College	115	11-20-2006 11:28 AM
How China Will Change Your Business	oneman28	Political Discussions	6	04-04-2005 12:21 PM

10-16-2006, 14:15 PM	#86 (permalink)
astralis *Foreign Service* Moderator Lei Feng Protege Join Date: 08-23-05 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 3,188 Country:	highsea, those half-apologies are just about worthless in chinese eyes because they are invalided by the very fact that the prime minister of japan is going to a temple that honors class-A war criminals, whose museum exonerates- nay, glorifies- japanese imperialism, militarism, and killing. not to mention how japanese politics is hamstrung by a right-wing which believes in such a tradition...the current PM abe, for example, has moved to the center on the yasukuni issue after peddling to the right in the elections. that he even NEEDS to peddle to the right demonstrates that japan is definitely not fully reformed. the problem with east asian nationalism is that it was created in response to outside aggression, whether it was western or not. this fosters cultural (and to a lesser extent ethnic) nationalism. in other words the whole damn place is prickly, chinese, korean, and japanese all.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)