What will happen if China war with Japan? - Page 4

**TopHatter** · 09-24-2006, 21:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

{Every thing that OoE said}

That was like watching a small misbehaving child get spanked REALLY hard.

lemontree · 09-25-2006, 00:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wangrui961

what can NK do? Throw guided missiles to Japan and initiates nuclear war?
Pak can help us to cut the oil to Japan ,their ports could spport our submarines.

How will those subs get past the Mallaca Straits? The US navy and Indian navy will chew up anything in Pakistani ports.

glyn · 09-25-2006, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astralis

glyn,

last time i checked, the roman empire and the vikings weren't around 50 years ago, with their apologists still in government and enacting policy.

last time i checked, the europeans in existence then weren't in existence now.

last i checked, neither the romans nor the vikings slaughtered, tortured, and enslaved on anywhere close to the same level the IJA did.

wake me up if you find out i'm wrong, alright?

The point I was responding to was the originator wanted to go to war with Japan for the actions performed on China in the 1930s and 1940s. The people responsible for them are (mostly) no longer living. Should we hold their descendants culpable for the deeds of their fathers and grandfathers? I don't think you hold that view.
Nations come and go. Borders are set, then moved - sometimes removed. Times change. One of my dearest friends is German. His father and mine were in WW2. They would have killed each other had they met between 1939 - 1945. His grandfather and mine fought in WW1. They would have killed each other had they met between 1914 -1918. Now Germany and the UK are in the same clubs, NATO & the EU, and have been at peace for over 60 years.

Anon · 09-25-2006, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glyn

Really? I suppose all the European nations should be in uproar because they were invaded and colonised by the Romans? Or the Danes?

Hmmm, the roman empre ended over a thousand years ago....the Japanese a mere 50 and change.

And the Japanese were- oh by the way- AT LEAST as brutal. (and probably far more so).

He is perfectly entitled to hate the Japanese, whether you like it or not. Being a veteran of the 31st Infantry regiment, i am none too fond of them either.

I certainly do not advocate renewed hostilities against Japan, but i'm not about to play hand-holding games and swap spit with them either.

**astralis** · 09-25-2006, 12:31 PM

glyn,

Quote:

The point I was responding to was the originator wanted to go to war with Japan for the actions performed on China in the 1930s and 1940s. The people responsible for them are (mostly) no longer living. Should we hold their descendants culpable for the deeds of their fathers and grandfathers? I don't think you hold that view.
Nations come and go. Borders are set, then moved - sometimes removed. Times change. One of my dearest friends is German. His father and mine were in WW2. They would have killed each other had they met between 1939 - 1945. His grandfather and mine fought in WW1. They would have killed each other had they met between 1914 -1918. Now Germany and the UK are in the same clubs, NATO & the EU, and have been at peace for over 60 years.

the difference is, germany has shown itself completely repentant. references to naziism and hitler are banned there. people get an absolute sense of revulsion there if you speak of either one.

in japan, we have right-wing nationalists still with a damn good deal of power in the government. textbooks WHITEWASH and sometimes plain lie about japanese involvement in the "Greater East Asia War", as they call it (and the right-wingers want to kick it up a notch still). politicians that advocate changing the textbooks to reflect, oh, history, or re-examining the past are condemned by these same right-wingers. books that expound how the "bataan death march wasn't so bad", tojo's grand-daughter is on a (profitable) crusade to revive her granddad's wonderful memory, books 'demonstrating' that the nanjing massacre never occurred- these are all best-sellers.

yasukuni is still visited by hundreds of thousands, if not millions. to show you how DIM they are, after the chinese and the koreans and the southeast asians protested the fact that 13 Class-A war criminals are HONORED there, they translated their displays that claim that the US started the war from japanese/english to chinese.

the only reason why japan isn't catching more flak from asians (chinese or otherwise) is because they have by and large stuck to a fairly pacifist policy since the days of WWII. if tokyo ever throws this off without first completely re-examining and living up to the past- japan's going to be in for a hot time.

HistoricalDavid · 09-25-2006, 13:00 PM

He's perfectly entitled to hate the Japanese who attend those war shrines. But not only does he speak of the Japanese as some monolithic entity all bearing responsibility for all of the others' actions past and presents, he advocates war on that basis, which is the biggest bone of contention anyway.

**Officer of Engineers** · 09-25-2006, 13:10 PM

David,

The point here is that you cannot ignore that hatre. You have to acknowledge it exists for whatever reason. You have to deal with that hatre and find ways not to let it explode.

So he advocates war. Show him the kind of monster he needs to be in order to goto war. If he is that kind of monster, kill him.

kams · 09-25-2006, 14:06 PM

New Leader of Japan

Quote:

A day before he is to be selected prime minister, Shinzo Abe has shuffled the leadership of the ruling Liberal Democratic Party. The appointments provide Japan with its first hint of the Abe Administration's priorities.

Shinzo Abe gave a strong signal Monday that his administration will not veer far from the policies of his predecessor, outgoing Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi.

A day before parliament is due to elect Abe to succeed Mr. Koizumi, the new leader of the Liberal Democratic Party appointed his top political executives. The man receiving the most attention - both for his past record and what his appointment says about Abe's future policies - is 62-year-old Hidenao Nakagawa, a scandal-tainted veteran of two previous administrations.

Nakagawa resigned as chief cabinet secretary five years ago after he was linked to a top right-wing extremist, and an alleged extramarital affair with a bar hostess was publicized.

Still, during Mr. Koizumi's five years in office, Nakagawa was instrumental in promoting the prime minister's spending cuts and other structural reforms. His appointment to the secretary-general's post is seen as a sign that the new prime minister intends to continue with the Koizumi reforms.

Analyst Kenichi Nagura, who monitors Japanese politics for Medley Global Advisors, says one of Nakagawa's early jobs will be to limit damage to the L.D.P in next year's upper house elections - which will be the first major electoral test for Abe's administration.

"Many people say the L.D.P. will lose the election. The L.D.P. secretary-general is in charge of the election, so Nakagawa will put his effort on the election," Nagura says.

Nakagawa shares Abe's hawkish views on North Korea, and his desire to revise the pacifist constitution imposed on Japan by the United States after World War Two. The appointment makes him second in the party after Abe himself.
On Tuesday, shortly after being selected as prime minister, Abe is to name his cabinet members. Analysts say it will likely include a number of familiar faces from the Koizumi Administration - a further sign that nothing significantly new is expected regarding domestic policies with the change of administrations.

Now if Abe is to continue the policies of Mr.Koizumi, what are the chances of Sino-Japan relations improving? At the same time there are mixed signals coming from Abe. He is also for holding summits with China and South Korea. Japanese Foreign minister Taro Aso and Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Dai Bingguo held meetings in Tokyo .

HistoricalDavid · 09-25-2006, 14:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

David,

The point here is that you cannot ignore that hatre. You have to acknowledge it exists for whatever reason. You have to deal with that hatre and find ways not to let it explode.

I'm not ignoring the hatred, nor am I denying its origins. But I am denying it being justified. As for defusing it, one side of that coin has been partially addressed - refer to Wiki's long list of apology statements. As for eliminating the revisionist textbooks and shrine-visits, I confess I'm neither an Japanese educational expert nor a shrine expert, but it doesn't take a genius to recognise their moral bankruptcy and the need to fix it.

Quote:

So he advocates war. Show him the kind of monster he needs to be in order to goto war. If he is that kind of monster, kill him.

I think I have in the intellectual sense - he certainly hasn't addressed the 'shrine-visits and worth going to war, eh?' beyond the emotional counter, "what would you do?" which I think I've answered quite personally with the grandfather-dying-after-two-days-of-internal-bleeding and me-still-not-wanting-Russian-democide matter.

But killing him in the military sense? Not only am I neither enlisted nor commissioned, I also believe in free speech - including the right of super-nationalists to advocate war. A free society reaches its most profound expression when it protects actions considered stupid, unpopular or both. I don't know about Chinese popularity for war against Japan (especially once informed of the likely US-related terrible effects of such a conflict) but his want for revenge is pretty stupid and irrational at the moment.

AntiSatellite · 09-27-2006, 18:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntiSatellite

Many people from the Indian National Army had become traitors to their own people and sold out to the nazis and Japanese fascists because they wanted to beat the British. However the Asians soon discovered that the Japanese were far more evil than their former European colonial masters.

The Nazis were far more kind to their Pows than the Imperial Japanese, Allied POWs had a death rate of about 3% in German POW camps. The Japanese took Korean sex slaves to rape to death, the Japanese worked many French to death and killed many Indians. Prisoners held by Japanese armed forces were subject to brutal treatment, including medical experimentation, starvation and be-heading contests. The atrocities committed by Japanese were physically worse than in the Nazi, but because the United States was soon in the Cold War and starting an the arms race against the Soviet Union ( which India was always seen as a Soviet Stooge ) they decided it would be better not to convict the war criminals in order to get information on the Japanese WMD program.

Despite all the crap Japan did in the past, I still don't think China should attack them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by starsiege

i doubt china, a country wich is not democratic, should go about setting historical stuff right. they can have a better start by letting the people have voting rights

I don't really give much of a crap about democracy in Japan or China, Democracy in Asia is a joke
neither of them want to move away from their totalitarian single-party states.

Sparks · 10-01-2006, 12:39 PM

Is it just me or wangrui961 is not who he says "she" is. He shows the maturity and comman knowlage of a 10 year old boy.When I read her post it reminds me of when I read Anthem by Ann Rym for english class.We all are one common ownership, saying we insted of I, and praticly brain washed. Can somebody ban her and get it over with? oh I forgot the spaming of tacky emocons

edit: I also forgot she claimed to have seen and taken pictures of the (fictional) top secret j-14 plane.

YellowFever · 10-01-2006, 19:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

China is a very important country but son, I've spent my life staring down the USSR. China doesn't scare me one bit after that.

It was like seeing someone pull the wings off a fly...

AntiSatellite · 10-01-2006, 22:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntiSatellite

Many people from the Indian National Army had become traitors to their own people and sold out to the nazis and Japanese fascists because they wanted to beat the British. However the Asians soon discovered that the Japanese were far more evil than their former European colonial masters.

The Nazis were far more kind to their Pows than the Imperial Japanese, Allied POWs had a death rate of about 3% in German POW camps. The Japanese took Korean sex slaves to rape to death, the Japanese worked many French to death and killed many Indians. Prisoners held by Japanese armed forces were subject to brutal treatment, including medical experimentation, starvation and be-heading contests. The atrocities committed by Japanese were physically worse than in the Nazi, but because the United States was soon in the Cold War and starting an the arms race against the Soviet Union ( which India was always seen as a Soviet Stooge ) they decided it would be better not to convict the war criminals in order to get information on the Japanese WMD program.

Despite all the crap Japan did in the past, I still don't think China should attack them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by starsiege

they can have a better start by letting the people have voting rights

US style Democracy doesn't work so well in Asia, in fact most of them would rather a single-party state.

gilgamesh · 10-01-2006, 22:34 PM

Your Govt feels differently. Japan has heavily invested in the manufacturing sector of your economy. If China really cared about such(war shrine) issues, it would not have traded with Japan.

That being said, Japan is an exclusivist and even a racist society.

starsiege · 10-02-2006, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntiSatellite

US style Democracy doesn't work so well in Asia, in fact most of them would rather a single-party state.

ever heard of india? it has hundreds of parties but has been demorcratic ever since its independance. and is the largest democracy in the world population wise.

ever heard of srilanka? the first country in ASIA to give voting rights to all its citizens? and the first country in the WORLD to have a women as the head of state?

take some history classes

before u post further on this subject

09-25-2006, 13:10 PM	#52 (permalink)
Officer of Engineers *Military Professional* Moderator Scotch taster Join Date: 08-06-03 Posts: 15,915 Country:	David, The point here is that you cannot ignore that hatre. You have to acknowledge it exists for whatever reason. You have to deal with that hatre and find ways not to let it explode. So he advocates war. Show him the kind of monster he needs to be in order to goto war. If he is that kind of monster, kill him. __________________ Chimo

10-01-2006, 12:39 PM	#56 (permalink)
Sparks New Member Join Date: 10-01-06 Posts: 5	Is it just me or wangrui961 is not who he says "she" is. He shows the maturity and comman knowlage of a 10 year old boy.When I read her post it reminds me of when I read Anthem by Ann Rym for english class.We all are one common ownership, saying we insted of I, and praticly brain washed. Can somebody ban her and get it over with? oh I forgot the spaming of tacky emocons edit: I also forgot she claimed to have seen and taken pictures of the (fictional) top secret j-14 plane. Last edited by Sparks : 10-01-2006 at 12:43 PM. Reason: Forgot some text

10-01-2006, 22:34 PM	#59 (permalink)
gilgamesh *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 09-06-05 Posts: 998 Country:	Your Govt feels differently. Japan has heavily invested in the manufacturing sector of your economy. If China really cared about such(war shrine) issues, it would not have traded with Japan. That being said, Japan is an exclusivist and even a racist society. Last edited by gilgamesh : 10-01-2006 at 23:37 PM.

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09-25-2006, 13:00 PM	#51 (permalink)
HistoricalDavid Distant Deeps or Skies *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 07-19-05 Location: North London, UK Posts: 2,008 Country:	He's perfectly entitled to hate the Japanese who attend those war shrines. But not only does he speak of the Japanese as some monolithic entity all bearing responsibility for all of the others' actions past and presents, he advocates war on that basis, which is the biggest bone of contention anyway.

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