bigross86

From a strict point of view, using only facts, I want you guys to attempt to answer a question: If the US had to attack Israel (Which according to some people might be a very big hooray) how would the war look, especially both Air Forces. I want you guys to imagine a normal buildup, carriers, neighboring bases, ground troops, etc... NO NUKES ALLOWED!!! None on either side, not even the threat of nukes. How do you think the forces of both armies would be spread out, how long would the air war last, how long would the ground war last. OBJECTIVE: JERUSALEM. Remember: No Holy Artifacts can be harmed or destroyed, so that negates artillery and bombs in the objective. Let' er rip guys!!! Once again, I ask, PLEASE keep this strictly facts only, no personal attacks, no trolling, no flaming, everything realistic, and on a friendly basis. Aiight?

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Anon

I'd hate to be an Israeli if this came to pass.

Be interesting to see the IAF try to take on the might of 6 carrier battlegroups though.

In reality, US warships/B-52's launch many thousands of CALCM TACTOM/TLAMs from about 1,000 miles out, decapitating Israeli C4i and temporarily closing Israeli airbases in one fell swoop. This would be the real life no **** version of shock and awe. (Of course this assumes the US as the initiator, which may or may not be true.)

Once the C4i is down, it's pretty much over, which means it's pretty much over after the first gigantic TLAM salvo.

Right behind the TLAMs would of course be the stealth bombers(F-117, B-2) now attacking into a decapitated IADS system. If this occurs after about 2006 these will be escorted by F-22's flying air supremacy/SEAD missions.

Coming in behind the stealth fleet would be on the order of 500 USN warplanes and probably close to 2000 USAF warplanes. Full jamming support, full SEAD and BARCAP.

Basicly the whole kitchen sink.

This just continues till Israel surrenders, or America has to land the USMC with probably 5 Gator carriers and over 100 Harriers and 200 Cobras in support.

The US Army would be mainly sidelined unless the US Govt could secure basing rights and permission to launch an attack from someone's soil.
LOL, in reality, that would probably not be much of a problem either.

If the IDF has to defend against the US Army on one flank and the USMC on another, it is in just a terrible world of hurt, even with an intact C4i structure, which they wouldn't have.

I know a lot of folks are enamored with the IDF, but they're just too small to play with the biggest dog on the planet in an all out conventional conflict.

The IDF could stop the UK, or France, or probably even the Red Fleet back in their heyday, but the US military is in an entirely different league than the rest of the planet.

Conversely, the IDF could deal serious damage to a US CVBG if the IAF struck first. However, the American people would be outraged to a level comparable to 9-11 or Pearl Harbor. All bets would be off then. There's no telling what the US would do in retaliation.

bigross86

Yes, but you're starting this whole conflict out with waves of B-52's and CVBG's. B-52's are easy targets, plus the long flight, and it will be quite a while until 6 CVBG's get to the AO.

markaspen

Sorry Bigross, your'e talking pinpricks. No great deal for the US to take out te airbases, after that we'll be using Tzomet Geha as a hardstand. Given the US numerical superiority it wouldn't take much to knock out our air-refueling and transport capabilities either.

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Captain C

I do think that the US has proven itself to be a trusted and valuable ally of Israel. I think they are now one of our best and most trusted allies as well. So I wouldn't put much faith in any rumors about the US attacking Israel. We attack Israel you might see a second civil war over here!!!!

I think if Israel is attacked by a large outside force she is incapable of stopping, the US will bite somebody in the gluteous maximus and put a very large fork in them because their goose is cooked....

That said, why do those of Jewish heritage in America support the Democratic Party? If anybody in America is disloyal to the Jewish people/nation it is the current democratic party leadership. Look at what all they tried to do to Israel during Clinton's administration. Anyway, I don't need to get started on that in this thread.....

God bless America and Israel..... :Dbanana

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ZFBoxcar

Nobody is saying the US would attack Israel, he was just wondering what it would be like.

As for supporting the democracts...it used to be that a fairly large majority of Jews leaned a little to the left. Not anymore. Id say a slight majority of Jews are now Republicans.

troung

"The US Army would be mainly sidelined unless the US Govt could secure basing rights and permission to launch an attack from someone's soil.
LOL, in reality, that would probably not be much of a problem either."

I doubt it would be hard for the USA to get bases to fight Israel, not like anyone likes them.

" If anybody in America is disloyal to the Jewish people/nation it is the current democratic party leadership."

Disloyal?

Please don't forget who is the big brother and who is the little one.


The IDF/AF is no where in the USAF/USNs league, in fact I can name other air forces around the world which are better. Israel is all PR.

Beating on poorly equiped Arabs does not mean you are the best.

BUFFB52

The B-52s wouldn't be vulnerable. B-52s can attack with standoff weapons such as JASSM, JSOW, AGM-86B/C basically any stand-off weapon their is in the USAF inventory the BUFF can carry it, making it one of the BEST bombers(and my personal favorite) ever. The BUFF still has a lot of life in it, the USAF expects the BUFF could be in service till 2045, almost a 100 years in service! Hell yeah!

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Officer of Engineers

Bigross86,

You might be interested in this link

The Russians Were Coming: The Soviet Military Threat in the 1967 Six-Day War

I know of the Soviet threat in 1973 but I haven't seen any actual details for intervention.

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troung

"We attack Israel you might see a second civil war over here!!!!"

hahahahahahah

With who?

Jewish diamond sellers vs. the rest of the nation?

Quickest civil war in history.

Not like you guyts could face a real enemy anyways.

And you wanna talk about backstabbing, what do you call the PL-8/9, J-10 and the planned Phalcon sale to China?


Israel is a "defense force" whose whole job is beating up rock throwing kids, my ass you guys could fight the USA. Hey but 13 year old boys with rocks might be more then you guys can handle.

Anon

"Yes, but you're starting this whole conflict out with waves of B-52's and CVBG's. B-52's are easy targets, plus the long flight, and it will be quite a while until 6 CVBG's get to the AO. "

You said both sides get to build up, remember?

In case you forgot....

"I want you guys to imagine a normal buildup, carriers, neighboring bases, ground troops, etc... "

Or do you expect the US would just attack Israel with one Carrier group?

Please, Iraq faced SIX, and they have nothing like the military Israel has. The US would send everything they possibly could to the theater.

Count on it.

One other thing...

"B-52's are easy targets, plus the long flight,"

The B-52's would be using CALCM cruise missiles, with a range over 1000 nautical miles. You aren't under the delusion Israel could intercept a fleet of bombers that far out are you? The long flight is no problem, it would all be timed to happen in unison just like ODS was.

ZFBoxcar

Ya those were disasters in Israeli diplomacy. The government let the military industrial complex rule foreign relations. Hopefully those days are over.

And why do you assume that Israel cant fight a strong country (not US strong, but strong)? You are trying to prove a negative. You are saying that because the wars Israel has been in are against crap armies, that Israel can only fight said armies.

Stinger

Not that your trying to be inflamatory here Troung?


While I wouldn't rate Isreal as being able to go toe to toe with the US, I'm certain they could whip the French.... ok bad example....

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Lunatock

If the U.S. ever had to attack israel. We'd have a chance to solve two problems.

1. Israel Hypothetically needing to be attacked.

2. Plenty of anti-semites willing to make the first rush and take the bullets. Thus getting the door at least semi-open for actual Soldiers, most likely the USMC.

Btw. Noticed this thread doesn't match the forum title. Think it should be moved, Gio or Ironman?

Got the invalid session screen apon trying to personally. :-| So perhaps thats one less thing for me to be a ball buster about.

troung

“While I wouldn't rate Isreal as being able to go toe to toe with the US, I'm certain they could whip the French.... ok bad example....”

BS. France is a world power. France makes modern fighters and can project power around the globe, and Israel can bomb Tuniasia which has 10 old fighter jets............

“Ya those were disasters in Israeli diplomacy. The government let the military industrial complex rule foreign relations. Hopefully those days are over”

The USA had to pay them to cancel the Phalcon deal. And those days were not that long ago.

“. You are saying that because the wars Israel has been in are against crap armies, that Israel can only fight said armies.”

They have not fought any well equipped enemies. Arabs flying MiG-21PFs, which lack guns, can’t put up to much a fight with the Mirage IIIC or F-4E.

“And why do you assume that Israel cant fight a strong country (not US strong, but strong)?”

Look at their military history and thier current military.