Anon

"Troung, your'e wrong, Israel has a blue water capable navy, but doesn't have to project globally on a regular basis. "

LOL, no they don't.

Anon

"Not quite. The Muslims hate Israel more, but they still hate most of the Western World anyway."

The Arabs would give basing rights to anyone attacking Israel as long as the US didn't whine about it.

C'mon, they hate the jews, of course they would do what they could to help.

troung

"What happened to Red China being on the same side as Vietnam during the war?"

What rock have you been living under?

"Apparently you don't"

Oh, before you consider them loyal allies remember that many fought for the North as many Rhade and Kha fought for the North and Pathet Loa as well.

"Not quite. The Muslims hate Israel more, but they still hate most of the Western World anyway."

Huh?

You might say France has done its part is arming many of them.

They sure as hell don't hate France.

Stinger

Has nothing to do with them being allies or not, It has more to do with the fact that they were pretty much systimaticaly wipped out. The US has done it to, as has probly every major Government (or at least attempted to). However my point is you feel you can pass negative judgement on a country that isn't even going as far as your own country did in regards to disruption, dislocation, and flat out elimination of a people they are in conflict with. Now me I don't really have any idea how to stop the violence over there (short of turning the whole region into a glow in the dark glass parking lot), but I don't think dynamite vests and exploding buses are going to do the job, nor is sending in Attack helo's and tanks.

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Your look more lost than a bastard child on fathers day.

bigross86

It's the rock of books, knowledge, and being American. I read that American's were shot at over 'Nam and Chine, and Vietnamese pilots could bail-out over China without being harmed. Being American, you're either with us or against us. And those two seem to be against us, therefore they're allies.

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You're a naughty girl, go to my room!

Officer of Engineers

The Sino-VNese Alliance ended around 1976-77 when the mass ethnic cleansing of ethnic Chinese happenned in Vietnam. Downright hostilities started boiling over when VN and Cambodia went to war, culmulating with the 1st Sino-VN War in 1979 though that war was more of an attempt to remove the Soviet Southern Flank than to avenge Cambodia.

I don't know the strategic reasons for the 2nd Sino-VN War in 84-87 which ended in a pissing contest more than anything else.

I do not recall any US mission that far north into China which would have met by Chinese air defence rather than Vietnamese.

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Chimo

Stinger

There was a buffer zone extending some 10-20 miles into NV, Although our fighters did chase some NV fighters north they had to turn away at this buffer whilst NV aircraft were allowed to land at bases in China. officially no American aircraft ever entered Chinese airspace.

markaspen

Wow, this thread got lost. As a note, think out of the box. "Blue Water" capable is no longer limited to CVN battle groups and such. No, Israel couldn't blockade anyone except maybe Syria and Lebanon. But she can interdict shipping from Sinai to the Syrian Turkish border.

In other words she doesn't need to operate at the level of the RN or USN, thats not the need. As early as 1970, then Defense Minister Dayan noted that one can only absorb so many tanks and aircraft. The limitation is training and maintaining the manpower needed to support them.

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Pa'am Tzanhan, Tamid Tzanhan.

Officer of Engineers

I thought the term blue water means operating far from one's home shore (as opposed to brown water). The Canadians and Australians are classified as full blue water navies while the Japanese, though stronger but lacking in LOG support, is said to have a limited blue water capability.

Your description fits more brown water than blue water.

troung

"Has nothing to do with them being allies or not, It has more to do with the fact that they were pretty much systimaticaly wipped out."

No they weren't, not the ones that fought on our side anyways. You must remeber that there were "Montagnards" on both sides of the border, north and south.

"As a note, think out of the box. "Blue Water" capable is no longer limited to CVN battle groups and such. No, Israel couldn't blockade anyone except maybe Syria and Lebanon. But she can interdict shipping from Sinai to the Syrian Turkish border."

Thats not blue water. Wake me up when the IDF can blockaid Malaysia or South Korea.

"The Sino-VNese Alliance ended around 1976-77 when the mass ethnic cleansing of ethnic Chinese happenned in Vietnam."

It was falling apart before that. We also had to pick a side the USSR or China.

"I don't know the strategic reasons for the 2nd Sino-VN War in 84-87 which ended in a pissing contest more than anything else."

It was a pointless conflict.

"Being American, you're either with us or against us. And those two seem to be against us, therefore they're allies."

:roll: :roll: :roll:

bigross86

If you'd actually read, he was agreeing that Israel doesn't have Blue Water capability. But he also said that Israel doesn't need it, they can do whatever they need to do with their current navy.

I'd appreciate it if you'd either respond to something I've said with words, or don't respond at all. This eye rolling of yours is really quite annoying. Say what you wanna say, or don't do anything at all. Thank you.

Ray

This will be as rare a situation as landing on Pluto.

For arguments sake, it is obvious that it will be the US. Another factor that will go against Israel is that it is boxed around with hostile neighbours, who would do everything to assisst the US.

Israel's friends are few. India may be Israel's friend so long as the current Indian govt continues. But it will be in no position to help nor will the Western countries.

I sure do hope that this scenario does not come to pass.

Praxus

Israel is out ally, not our strongest, but we are fighting the same battle against the same enemy, against the same ideology. We should support them with what they need to do to protect themselves.

ChrisF202

Dident US aircraft enter China during the Korean war?

bigross86

I know Red China was involved in the Korean War, but I don't know to what extent.