Parihaka

I care....

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In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.
Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz

Confed999

Gotta stomp 'em when they do it on purpose...

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No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

Confed999

As do I...

Parihaka

We're on a mission from God.

troung

A concern for human rights almost stopped the flow of aid for the Afghan war with the Soviets. Indonesia got hit with human rights related sanctions. Chile as well.

So yeah we don't do nearly enough but human rights do come up.

People do.

Seeing as the Ethiopian air force has already been striking terrrorist training camps in Somalia I guess things will get worse. So don't get mad when we have to level the ruins of Somalia.

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To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

HistoricalDavid

Just so long as they don't coerce or defraud others, or threaten to do so.

ALL individuals around the world deserve to live in individual freedom as long as they respect the freedoms of others.

...Even if a large majority wants it, they have no right to tyrannise EVERYONE.

And if on an individual level, you want to become Islamic, fine. Observe the laws yourself. Why do you need to change the government?

All governments around the world should be secular.

ArmchairGeneral

Unfortunately, much of the world does not believe in the same worldview as you. Islam does not allow for the existence of secular gov't, at least under most interpretations. The idea of separation of church and state is completely foreign to them, and to a vast number of other people. Even Britain has a state church. Basically, you're going to have to change the religions and cultures of many people before you begin to have secular gov'ts everywhere. In fact, even in America, the state gov'ts were originally allowed to have state churches, I think one of the post Civil War amendments eliminated that, at least in the current interpretation, which I have mixed feelings about.

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"Apocalyptic thought is curiously pleasurable."
-Theodore Dalrymple

platinum786

See the rpoblem comes in when you want all world governemnts to be secular. I want all muslim governemnts run by shraiah we are muslim and we will run our countries by muslim laws,t hose who do not like it can leave. Afterall if french muslims want to wear headscarves in shcool they can go elsewhere, why cannot the somali's who don't want Shariah go elsewhere?

Quite frankly the muslim world will do as it pleases, today you can bully us, tommorow you will not be able too. you tried tos top Pakistan becoming a nuclear amred nation today we are, you have tried to stop Iran from making nucelar power, today your governemnt is offering them the same resources just as long as they don't make the bomb, watch what happens in the middle east as "democracy" is introduced, like in Iraq, the people will stake to the streets and get rid of the stooges you have imposed upon them.

Confed999

We didn't pick the stooges, they did.

troung

It is funny but you hold onto your British citizenship oh so tight...

Then by the same logic if you have a problem with the west head back to the "Islamic Republic" or Pakistan.

You don't live in the Muslim world and thus we are not bullying you... England is an ally.

I have a friend who once got into an arguement with a gentleman who said "if Africa was a super power" the arguement stopped because the other gentleman got laughed at...

platinum786

Troung, you say it like you care of Africanskill each other, you might, the policy makers care only when thier killing each other affects the price of oil.

If the majority of a country want one thing they get it, if the minority don't want it it is opposed upon them or they leave. It happens all over the world. In the so called free world we british epople where forced to go into a war on Iraq, even though the amjority of us didn't want to, even though 1 in 60 people physically managed to go to a rally in London to oppose it, we ahven't had that type of mobilization of the masses in a long long time, yet the tinpot dictator that we where forced to vote in due to a lack of credible opposition dragged us into an illeagal war half way across the world.

It's the way of the world, might is right, Tony Blair took us to war because he could and there was nothing we could do about it, Shariah will be implemented in muslim states when we can afford to defend ourselves and our ways and there will be nothing anyone can do aobut it, until then enjoy your bullying of the world.

platinum786

I have every right to, I am a british citizen, I am eqal to any other man, I have every right to call myself british and be proud of that and there is nothing that anyone can do about that. I'm not british because I hide in the western world to drink and chase women and smoke drugs and watch pronography and so other things that are not legal in the muslim world, I am british because I am born british and I have a right to be british despite the colour of my skin and depsite what my beliefs are.

How can you tell me to go backhome when britian is home? I am brtish and I am muslim and I am proud. I will be british and I will be muslim and I will continue to support my religion and my people, be they british or muslim. I am the west, thus when I have problems with "the west" I will rectify those problems not run away from them, I never run from my problems.

I am muslim, we are all one world, If i twas Hindu i'sd say the same word's, we are all one world, because before we become muslims, christians, english, scottish, african, european, black/white/brown/yellow, arsenal or chelsea fans, before all that we are humans, one species one world.

Actions speak louder than words, we'll see what happens, hopefully we willa ll live long fruitful, healthy lives so that we can see what happens, and then i'll tell you why i was right.

HistoricalDavid

They don't have to have the same view as I, so long as they don't force it upon others.

Just in case you're thinking "David, but you yourself are forcing your views on others!", I'm not. My support of a secular, liberal, constitutional representative government with a heavy, heavy dose of capitalism tries to ensure as much as possible that each individual has the opportunity to live his own life as much as possible, free from genuine coercion or the threat of it, either from the state or from non-state entities, for example, these militias.

Doesn't change the fact that they're human and thus deserve, inherently, to live in liberty.

With how much power?

Well if that's what it takes for people to live free from being coerced... Frankly, I don't think that'll be necessary. Perhaps a reformation, but not necessarily a complete change, which I think you're implying.

That was 140 years ago and they've made great strides to reform it, though I still would inconsider it inexcusable.

But, as I've said repeatedly to astralis, we're talking about now and what policy should be adopted, now.

NONE of what you say is relevant in the least.

A freely elected Parliament of 650ish MPs made the decision to go to war, and it is Parliament which is sovereign here, not the popular majority. And if you really want to know, actual polls suggested a 50/50 split on going to war at the beginning.

Illegal? According to whom? The tyrants at the UN?

http://web.umr.edu/~rogersda/militar...0on%20SSBN.jpg

These will not go out of service any time soon.

Should they be used to glassbed Pakistan, now, then?

Can you make a distinction between positive and normative ideas?

And leave their property, their livelihoods? What if the whole world becomes a theocracy?

They shouldn't have to.

How will they do this?

More of this bloody inferiority complex.

With your crap-quality fizzling nukes? What are your delivery systems? Got any SSBNs, got any long-range bombers, got anything impressive at all?

A potential solution.

As confed said...

Confed999

Which is why their tyranny should never be allowed...

HistoricalDavid

I am not born in Britain, though I have British citizenship.

I suppose I am not as British as you?

I entirely, utterly, deeply agree with this.

And all of them deserve life and liberty.

PS I am Romanian, i.e. from a former slave camp.