Shooting at Jewish School Leaves Rabbi, 3 Kids Dead in France

**Bigfella** · 22 Mar 12,, 08:11

Originally Posted by MIKEMUN

It is sad that grieving families will now be dragged into the spotlight for photo ops with politicians who couldn't care less what they are going through, as long as they get that bump in the polls.

One of the more disgusting political sights this week was of Le Pen attending the funerals of men who, because of their race, she doesn't actually want as French citizens. Other than that there seemed to be a brief lull in the politicking, but I am not enogh of an optimist to believe that will last.

**Bigfella** · 22 Mar 12,, 08:13

Originally Posted by kato

Le Pens candidacy - she didn't have the necessary support votes to even run until a week ago - will only hurt Sarkozy and result in Hollande becoming new president, which will result in the rest of Europe probably finally ridding itself of the conservative plague we've had in the offices the last couple years. Rejoice!

Marine le Pen already is the leader of FN btw. Her father is only honorary chairman.

Kato,

Is that necessarily how it will play out? I am no expert in French electoral law, but if no candidate gets a majority isn't there a runoff? I'm assuming Le Pen won't get more votes tha nSarkozy & that very little (if any) of her vote will bleed to the left in a runoff. If these events push a few voters from the Socialists to Sarkozy, might it give him a chance in a runoff?

**kato** · 22 Mar 12,, 10:49

Originally Posted by Bigfella

If these events push a few voters from the Socialists to Sarkozy, might it give him a chance in a runoff?

Current projection:
first election - Sarkozy 28.5%, Hollande 27.0%, Le Pen 16.0%, Bayrou 11%, Melenchon 10%
runoff - Hollande 54.4%, Sarkozy 45.6%

Hollande (Socialists, social democrat) essentially gets the voter share from Bayrou (Democrats, centrist) and Melenchon (Left Front, communist) in the run-off, Sarkozy (Popular Party, gaullist/conservative) the voter share from Le Pen (National Front, nazis).

**dave lukins** · 22 Mar 12,, 12:19

Originally Posted by Doktor

Hope the French will capture him alive, without any more casualties and leave him alone in a dark room with the French version of Beria.

It's not going to happen...he's dead after a shoot out

**Doktor** · 22 Mar 12,, 12:37

Originally Posted by dave lukins

It's not going to happen...he's dead after a shoot out

Chicken!

**dave lukins** · 22 Mar 12,, 13:22

Originally Posted by Doktor

Chicken!

At least he is saving the tax payer millions of €. No doubt the Lawyers and human rights brigade are a bit peeved about that. It would have been better justice if he was taken to Court, sentenced, then spent the rest of his days in jail.

**astralis** · 22 Mar 12,, 13:29

dave,

dunno, french police don't have a good reputation for gentleness in questioning. too bad they didn't catch the guy and make him squeal like a stuck pig; i'm curious as to how the guy got his hands on so many weapons...especially when newspaper reports that french intelligence was supposedly tracking the guy after he made 2(!) stops to afghanistan.

**kato** · 22 Mar 12,, 13:51

Originally Posted by astralis

i'm curious as to how the guy got his hands on so many weapons...

It's France. The place where the number of illegal guns exceeds that of legal guns nearly tenfold.

**Doktor** · 22 Mar 12,, 14:01

Originally Posted by astralis

dave,

dunno, french police don't have a good reputation for gentleness in questioning. too bad they didn't catch the guy and make him squeal like a stuck pig; i'm curious as to how the guy got his hands on so many weapons...especially when newspaper reports that french intelligence was supposedly tracking the guy after he made 2(!) stops to afghanistan.

French police would have (IIRC) 48h to question him before HR and lawyers come to the scene. Wonder if that'd be enough of a punishment.

He was also in Pakistan on those 2 tours.

**FJV** · 22 Mar 12,, 20:43

Originally Posted by Doktor

French police would have (IIRC) 48h to question him before HR and lawyers come to the scene. Wonder if that'd be enough of a punishment.

He was also in Pakistan on those 2 tours.

He would likely fall under French terrorism laws, which would make things much different from what is implied here.

PS
I have the same feelings for this guy as for the guy in Afghanistan that killed an entire family.

**dave lukins** · 22 Mar 12,, 22:09

Originally Posted by astralis

french intelligence was supposedly tracking the guy after he made 2(!) stops to afghanistan.

"Afghan security forces detained Merah on Dec. 19, 2007, and he was sentenced to three years in jail for planting bombs in the southern province of Kandahar, the Taliban’s birthplace, Kandahar prison chief Ghulam Faruq said, citing prison documents. Merah escaped along with up to 1,000 prisoners, including 400 Taliban insurgents. At the time of the break a Taliban soldier drove up to the prisons main gate and detonated a truck bomb opening the door"

Did the French have this knowledge and if so why didn't they arrest him? He was planting bombs to kill troops but allowed to travel freely under the noses of French Intelligence. As a convicted bomber he should have at least been arrested and deported back to Afghanistan. Too late now the horse has bolted.

**Bigfella** · 22 Mar 12,, 23:34

Originally Posted by dave lukins

"Afghan security forces detained Merah on Dec. 19, 2007, and he was sentenced to three years in jail for planting bombs in the southern province of Kandahar, the Taliban’s birthplace, Kandahar prison chief Ghulam Faruq said, citing prison documents. Merah escaped along with up to 1,000 prisoners, including 400 Taliban insurgents. At the time of the break a Taliban soldier drove up to the prisons main gate and detonated a truck bomb opening the door"

Did the French have this knowledge and if so why didn't they arrest him? He was planting bombs to kill troops but allowed to travel freely under the noses of French Intelligence. As a convicted bomber he should have at least been arrested and deported back to Afghanistan. Too late now the horse has bolted.

I beleive they did know & that he was know to the security services, who were supposed to be 'monitoring' him. I'm not sure quite what thet means, but it clearly isn't very effective. There are going to be some awkward questions to answer here.

**Bigfella** · 22 Mar 12,, 23:36

Originally Posted by kato

Current projection:
first election - Sarkozy 28.5%, Hollande 27.0%, Le Pen 16.0%, Bayrou 11%, Melenchon 10%
runoff - Hollande 54.4%, Sarkozy 45.6%

Hollande (Socialists, social democrat) essentially gets the voter share from Bayrou (Democrats, centrist) and Melenchon (Left Front, communist) in the run-off, Sarkozy (Popular Party, gaullist/conservative) the voter share from Le Pen (National Front, nazis).

Thanks Kato. I haven't been watching closely so I wasn't aware of the left wing parties.

**kato** · 23 Mar 12,, 06:44

Originally Posted by dave lukins

As a convicted bomber he should have at least been arrested and deported back to Afghanistan.

He's a French citizen, born and raised in Toulouse. No European state other than maybe the UK would deport an own citizen to Afghanistan or any other nation.

In fact, only that Afghan prison chief claim he's a convicted bomber - for whatever reason. The official line from all other authorities is that he was arrested by Afghan police when crossing the border from Pakistan into Kandahar province half a year ago, and was handed over to US forces who deported him to France. The DCRI (French intelligence) was aware of this, and had even had a number of meetings with the guy back in November to scope out why he tried to enter Afghanistan.