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Thread: Daley: Aid to Pakistan paused

  1. #16
    Contributor ace16807's Avatar
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    On a different note, I've noticed some speculation that Pakistan will end up trying to strengthen ties with the PRC. The question is, will the PRC reciprocate?

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    Contributor ace16807's Avatar
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    Of course Pakistan will tell the US to keep its money. It would appear that relations have soured to a point that there's no hope of salvaging much of anything. Pakistan would rather appear "strong" and and tell the US they can f**k off rather than bow to US pressure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ace16807 View Post
    On a different note, I've noticed some speculation that Pakistan will end up trying to strengthen ties with the PRC. The question is, will the PRC reciprocate?
    I would ask why not? Pakistan have always shared a healthy relation with PRC, plus Pakistan can prove to be the gateway to Arabian sea for PRC, but the point is would US take that chance of loosing a stratigic ally to the benefit of PRC?
    Last edited by payeng; 11 Jul 11, at 15:43.

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    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    This may be just me, but I think the US would be well advised to actively participate in infrastructure projects directly rather than giving aids and funds to bodies they know to be dubious.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deltacamelately View Post
    Is the average American on the streets, aware of the amount of wealth being spent as aids on the Pakistanis?

    Are they also aware of the deceit perpetrated repeatedly by the Pak Military?

    I ask, because I think it can only be one of these two things -

    1. They are unaware of both the above, or
    2. They have a patience level that can beat us Indians hand down.
    I hardly think it is a matter of a of patience of the Americans.

    Cases in point : the 911 incidents were met by an American led azz whomping of epic proportions on Al Queda (of course, they got a tad carried over with the whole extending WoT on Iraq thing).

    We responded to the Kandahar incidents by releasing Masood Azhar and associated scumbags; to the Kargil incident by not crossing the LoC, to the 2001 Parliament attacks by mounting a large operation and then climbing down and to the 26/11 incidents with statements of strong displeasure. Our patience, I fear, is limitless

    Chogy and S2

    I also do not buy into the ignorant American sterotype. Most Americans, as much I have dealt with them are perfectly cognizant of world wide going ons, at least the ones I have met in the State of Washington. They also do not shy away from challenging the government on details of policy, a look at the tea party movement should shed any doubts to that.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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    Rickshaw Professional Senior Contributor Pedicabby's Avatar
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    Aid to the Pakistan military? Why does a military with nukes need aid?

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    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by payeng View Post
    The chief spokesman for the Pakistan military, Athar Abbas, said the military had received no formal notification of any aid being cut. ''We have conducted our [anti-extremist] military operations without external support or assistance,'' said Major-General Abbas. ''Reports coming out of the US are aimed at undermining the authority of our military organisations.''

    Stories critical of Pakistan are leaked on an almost daily basis to the American press, riling Pakistani public and official opinion against Washington. Many in Pakistan believe there is a concerted American effort to weaken Pakistan and its armed forces, which are some of the largest in the world.
    This is an interesting angle. Does anybody agree ?

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    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    This is an interesting angle. Does anybody agree ?
    You mean questioning their military authority as effective?
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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    Double Edge Reply

    "This is an interesting angle. Does anybody agree ?"

    It's nonsense that's directed for domestic consumption. Nobody in their right mind would look at the parade of dollars and our most senior flag ranks to Rawalpindi and draw any conclusion but that America was DEEPLY committed to promoting a strong and viable Pakistani military-albeit one embedded with values that could be respected by all.

    We fell short but not for a lack of trying. In fact we tried TOO hard employing the so-called techniques of diplomatic soft-power with their military elite and came up all-too-often embarassingly empty.
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    I kind of agree with Antimony here. You know there is more than a superficial and limited shift in concerned perception amongst the general lay populace when Pakistanis living in the US and elsewhere abroad increasingly start passing themselves off as Indians - either actively or passively. I have seen this in the US, I have seen this in the UK, I have seen this in France, I have seen this in Switzerland. These are not good times to be a Pakistani. Especially on the flip side when we know what it would take for us to ever say or even imply (or not correct) that we were Pakistani to someone else.
    Last edited by vsdoc; 12 Jul 11, at 07:43.

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    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S2 View Post
    "This is an interesting angle. Does anybody agree ?"

    It's nonsense that's directed for domestic consumption. Nobody in their right mind would look at the parade of dollars and our most senior flag ranks to Rawalpindi and draw any conclusion but that America was DEEPLY committed to promoting a strong and viable Pakistani military-albeit one embedded with values that could be respected by all.
    Captain,

    Maybe so, but I still think America would have been better served by active participation in civilian institutions and infrastructure. Roads, bridges, schools and hospitals financed by and built under American supervision would probably had yielded better "hearts and minds" results than the military aid vanishing into a black hole.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought View Post
    You mean questioning their military authority as effective?
    No, I meant that I did not see these American reports as aiming to weaken the military. I do not get that impression at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by S2 View Post
    "This is an interesting angle. Does anybody agree ?"

    It's nonsense that's directed for domestic consumption. Nobody in their right mind would look at the parade of dollars and our most senior flag ranks to Rawalpindi and draw any conclusion but that America was DEEPLY committed to promoting a strong and viable Pakistani military-albeit one embedded with values that could be respected by all.

    We fell short but not for a lack of trying. In fact we tried TOO hard employing the so-called techniques of diplomatic soft-power with their military elite and came up all-too-often embarassingly empty.
    Right

  14. #29
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vsdoc View Post
    I kind of agree with Antimony here. You know there is more than a superficial and limited shift in concerned perception amongst the general lay populace when Pakistanis living in the US and elsewhere abroad increasingly start passing themselves off as Indians - either actively or passively. I have seen this in the US, I have seen this in the UK, I have seen this in France, I have seen this in Switzerland. These are not good times to be a Pakistani. Especially on the flip side when we know what it would take for us to ever say or even imply (or not correct) that we were Pakistani to someone else.
    Outside the UK maybe, but within the UK, to certain segments of the public we are ALL Pakistani

    They don't distinguish. If you look the part then thats all that matters to them.

    So i've heard of ppl referring to themselves as British Hindu as oppposed to muslim. A distinction that wasn't really present pre-9/11. A further specialisation has since been added.

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    Aid chart (US to Pakistan) from Guardian

    Last edited by nvishal; 12 Jul 11, at 10:16.
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