Pakistan Arrests C.I.A. Informants in Bin Laden Raid

**Agnostic Muslim** · 19 Jun 11,, 02:13

Originally Posted by S2

I concur that it's Pakistan's responsibility to ferret out agents of foreign nations operating on their soil and, where necessary, arrest and charge them. The U.S. has done so even with American agents of ostensibly friendly nations (Israel).

Glad you agree - as I pointed out, the issue is not the justification used by the US for carrying out an unauthorized military operation in Pakistani soil, the issue is the fact that individuals resident in Pakistan assisted a foreign entity in carrying out a military operation on Pakistani soil. That is especially serious from the Pakistani perspective if those individuals were working in institutions that are supposed to be guarding against such adventures by foreign entities.

Given the penetration of your military by terror elements, however, your counter-intelligence operatives need to focus their limited resources where most effective. The attack upon your naval air station in Karachi is a clear indication that much is amiss.

There is nothing to suggest that Pakistani counter-intelligence operatives are not acting against suspected extremist sympathizers in the military - as NE pointed out, the numerous attacks on ISI offices, buses, GHQ, military bases and even on the families of military officers (Parade Lines Mosque attack as well as attacks in Cantonment areas) offer more than enough motivation for the military and ISI to ferret out any extremist sympathisers in their midst.

Saleem Shehzad's last article suggested as much, in that the attacks on the Navy buses and Base were revenge for the Military breaking up an Al Qaeda Cell in the Navy.

Naturally many within your country are convinced we assisted that operation too. Perhaps even you. That's unfortunate and I hope with you not the case.

Am I certain that the US/India assisted in the attack on GHQ and the Naval base? No.

But I am also not at all certain, given the sheltering of Brahamdegh Bugti in Kabul and the continued attacks against Pakistan out of Eastern Afghanistan, that the US/India are not involved in some way.

I find it hard to understand Western suspicions of the ISI/PA, you may just as much find it hard to understand my own suspicions and distrust of your military and intelligence agencies.

**Agnostic Muslim** · 19 Jun 11,, 02:19

Originally Posted by YellowFever

In other words, good job Pakistan!

Forget the fact that the rest of the world is sick of your double dealings and looking like a fool to the rest of the world community.

Forget the fact that when you're in a deep hole, you should stop looking for more shovels.

You've sent a clear message.

Good going.

That rant has nothing to do with the central issue of individuals resident in Pakistan secretly cooperating with another nation's military and intelligence to carry out military strikes in Pakistan.

This time they assisted in a military raid against OBL, but it could also have been a military strike against strategic installations to weaken the country's conventional and/or unconventional assets.

There is absolutely no defence for inaction against these individuals, if they are indeed shown to have assisted the US (or others) in carrying out unauthorized military strikes inside Pakistan.

They are traitors and a threat to the country, and should be neutralized.

**Doktor** · 19 Jun 11,, 02:27

They helped your ally (on paper) to decapitate an organization responsible for killing innocent civilians in your country. How is that a treason?

**Asim Aquil** · 19 Jun 11,, 03:16

Originally Posted by zraver

Wait, and be very careful here AM- the US an ally of Pakistan discovers an ultra high level terror mastermind in your country and because of documented and reasoned fears acts alone in the best interests of both to kill said mastermind who has killed thousands of Pakistanis and you blame the ally?

If Pakistan does not free those men, I say it is time to re-evaluate exactly where Pakistan's government falls along the spectrum in opposing or supporting terrorism.

I would like to know what the US does to its citizens that collaborate with foreign intelligence agencies. Finally it shows some integrity on the part of the security agencies where law and order and process comes first, dictates from Washington later. The Osama Op however glorified it may be, was an illegal act and should always be treated as such even if the spawn of Satan was caught, Pakistani laws were violated.

**Asim Aquil** · 19 Jun 11,, 03:22

Oh btw, the US itself has been jailing spies of its ultra-friendly countries. Why not give Israeli spy Johnathan Pollard a pass? After all its Israel, a little bit of spying for the greater good should be allowed right?

Jonathan Pollard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jonathan Jay Pollard (born August 7, 1954 in Galveston, Texas) is a former civilian intelligence analyst who was convicted of spying for Israel. He received a life sentence in 1987.

Of course they have committed treason but would be let off with a slap on the wrist compared to what Americans do to spies of a foreign intelligence agency.

Playing it as retribution in support of Osama is the sort of twisted propaganda something what an AQ sympathizing Mullah would do from his pulpit. For some reasons Americans think its time Pakistan needs to bend over, whereas no crime has been proven to be committed by Pakistan, your deep suspicions are not a reason enough we stop existing as an independent entity.

**Officer of Engineers** · 19 Jun 11,, 03:24

Now, the enforcement of Pakistani Law! Dandy, just dandy. It was the failure of enforcing Pakistani Law that prompted American actions. When you fail to enforce ... or in this case, refuse to enforce your own laws, others will do it for you.

Damned be Pakistan for trying to protect OBL. Pakistan gotten off easy in case you didn't know. The other superpower would have began a systematic bombing and destruction of your country.

**Officer of Engineers** · 19 Jun 11,, 03:27

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

Oh btw, the US itself has been jailing spies of its ultra-friendly countries. Why not give Israeli spy Johnathan Pollard a pass? After all its Israel, a little bit of spying for the greater good should be allowed right?

Jonathan Pollard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of course they have committed treason but would be let off with a slap on the wrist compared to what Americans do to spies of a foreign intelligence agency.

Pollard betrayed the US. He did NOT killed Western citizens. OBL did. Taliban Afghanistan tried to protect him and we destroyed it. Now, we found OBL near your Officer School. Pray that is the end of it.

**Asim Aquil** · 19 Jun 11,, 03:36

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Now, the enforcement of Pakistani Law! Dandy, just dandy. It was the failure of enforcing Pakistani Law that prompted American actions. When you fail to enforce ... or in this case, refuse to enforce your own laws, others will do it for you.

Damned be Pakistan for trying to protect OBL. Pakistan gotten off easy in case you didn't know. The other superpower would have began a systematic bombing and destruction of your country.

As I said we have to strengthen law n order in our country. For 10 years now we have been giving Americans a pass.

Americans are allowed to carry automatic weapons
Americans are allowed to roam around with fake number plates
Americans are allowed to enter under fake diplomatic duties
Americans are allowed to purchase land bypassing all the procedures
Very recently Americans are allowed to kill civilians and leave.

Yes its high time, Pakistani law came in front. Yes Pollard didn't kill Americans, CIA agents have cases running against them in Pakistani courts and they are absconding from the law... Pakistani citizens are still awaiting justice. You are forgetting the noose around American agents is only going to get tighter now the public demands it. There should be rule of law, not rule of CIA.

Oh and bombing shbombing, Osama op was a violation of international and Pakistani laws. Just because he's SO important to the US doesn't justify breaking laws, US has to be first answerable for that. You should be thankful that a pliant Kayani is at the helm who switches off radars and looks the other way.

**Asim Aquil** · 19 Jun 11,, 03:55

Robert Hanssen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Robert Philip Hanssen (born April 18, 1944) is a former American FBI agent who spied for Soviet and Russian intelligence services against the United States for 22 years from 1979 to 2001. He is currently serving a life sentence at the Federal Bureau of Prisons Administrative Maximum facility in Florence, Colorado, a "Supermax" federal penitentiary in which Hanssen spends 23 hours a day in solitary confinement.[2]

Thomas Patrick Cavanaugh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Paroled)

Thomas Patrick Cavanaugh is an aerospace engineer who was sentenced in 1985 after being convicted of trying to sell stealth bomber secrets to the Soviet Union.

Brian Patrick Regan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Brian Patrick Regan is a former master sergeant in the United States Air Force who was convicted of offering to sell secret information to foreign governments.

**Officer of Engineers** · 19 Jun 11,, 04:23

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

Oh and bombing shbombing, Osama op was a violation of international and Pakistani laws. Just because he's SO important to the US doesn't justify breaking laws, US has to be first answerable for that. You should be thankful that a pliant Kayani is at the helm who switches off radars and looks the other way.

You really do not get it. The US is NOT India. The US has no qualms about nuking Pakistan for a man who killed 3000 of her citizens, especially a Pakistan armed with nukes ... and do you really want to measure nukes?

Pakistan maybe able to get by with Mumbai but don't you dare for one second pretend that you can get by with OBL.

This is NOT a nuclear weapons power with an NFU and only 100 nukes or so. This is a 10,000 nuclear weapons power with a dedicated first strike counter-force doctrine and it ain't no demonstration. First strike to the Americans mean all your nuclear facilities and all your major cities going up in a mushroom cloud at once.

**YellowFever** · 19 Jun 11,, 04:45

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

As I said we have to strengthen law n order in our country. For 10 years now we have been giving Americans a pass.

Let me spell this out in very simple terms AA.

You guys don't have a goddamn choice.

Ten years ago, it was either help us or get your country pulverized.

Things haven't changed that much.

And yes, alot of Americans (me included) are still that passionate about the WOT.

**Asim Aquil** · 19 Jun 11,, 04:56

Originally Posted by YellowFever

Let me spell this out in very simple terms AA.

You guys don't have a goddamn choice.

Ten years ago, it was either help us or get your country pulverized.

Things haven't changed that much.

And yes, alot of Americans (me included) are still that passionate about the WOT.

If you haven't noticed, the Pakistan government doesn't have a choice. The nation has already voiced its opinion to keep Pakistani law n order first, come what may. You will find your passion does not trump our patriotism.

**Asim Aquil** · 19 Jun 11,, 04:58

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

You really do not get it. The US is NOT India. The US has no qualms about nuking Pakistan for a man who killed 3000 of her citizens, especially a Pakistan armed with nukes ... and do you really want to measure nukes?

Pakistan maybe able to get by with Mumbai but don't you dare for one second pretend that you can get by with OBL.

This is NOT a nuclear weapons power with an NFU and only 100 nukes or so. This is a 10,000 nuclear weapons power with a dedicated first strike counter-force doctrine and it ain't no demonstration. First strike to the Americans mean all your nuclear facilities and all your major cities going up in a mushroom cloud at once.

It doesn't matter, gone are the days of bullying and threats. If we bow to US whims we are as good as dead and a non-entity. The realization is growing in Pakistan and will only get stronger. Our freedom comes first. When push comes to shove we will all fight to protect Pakistan.

This is not 2001 when you can scare your own public into agreeing to a war without providing evidence. There is no evidence linking ISI to protecting OBL, your secretary of state, heck your President has backed that opinion. Now you want to revert back to scary monster mode just because Pakistan won't listen to you... Your own public won't allow nukes and what not to fly our way.

Just to put things into perspective, tell me where is the Iran op?

**YellowFever** · 19 Jun 11,, 04:58

Our passion doesn't have to trump your patriotism.

Think about it.

**Officer of Engineers** · 19 Jun 11,, 04:58

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

If you haven't noticed, the Pakistan government doesn't have a choice. The nation has already voiced its opinion to keep Pakistani law n order first, come what may. You will find your passion does not trump our patriotism.

Then, enforce your laws! It speaks freaking volumes that you don't spend the effort in neutralizing an obvious OBL network but now going after those, without mercy, who helped the Americans.