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One of the main reasons of his burial at sea was because the US did not want him buried elsewhere and a shrine made at his burial site for worship.Originally Posted by Agnostic Muslim
Panetta, or anyone else for that matter, has not offered any credible evidence to support the argument of 'involvement', nor is there any credible argument to show 'incompetence'.
What reason did Pakistan have to investigate this particular residence, after they had already investigated it and its owner when it was built?
Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim
One of the main reasons of his burial at sea was because the US did not want him buried elsewhere and a shrine made at his burial site for worship.
Pakistan is either stupid or a nation full of terrorist supporters, pretty obvious stuff. How much more does the Obama Administration have to say about Pakistan's involvement before people get it that Pakistan was not in the loop about the raid? Christ certain people are either trolls or they are stupid...After the Raymond Davis issue , Leon Panetta has developed a personal grudge against Pakistan , its quite visible from his tone and his behaviour , this is the guy Pakistan needs to watch out for.
To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway
U.S. officials prepare to release photographic evidence of Osama bin Laden's death
U.S. officials describe the photos as "gruesome" and "graphic."
They reportedly show Osama bin Laden’s bloodied body in an Afghan hangar with a massive head wound above his left eye from the shot that had killed him earlier in the day.
The accompanying video is less gory, officials say, but may be just as inflammatory. It allegedly shows bin Laden’s lifeless body draped in a white shroud before it is placed in a weighted bag and deposited into the North Arabian Sea from the deck of the USS Carl Vinson.
CIA director Leon Panetta said tonight that U.S. officials are preparing to release photographic proof of bin Laden’s death, though he did not say when.
"The government obviously has been talking about how best to do this, but I don’t think there was any question that ultimately a photograph would be presented to the public," Panetta told "NBC Nightly News."
Panetta’s statement was the first indication a photo would be released. U.S. officials had been debating for days whether it was appropriate to make photos or videos of bin Laden’s dead body public.
"There’s no question that there were concerns and there were questions that had to be debated about just exactly (what) kind of impact would these photos have," Panetta said. "But the bottom line is ... we got bin Laden and I think we have to reveal to the rest of the world the fact that we were able to get him and kill him."
A Taliban spokesman expressed skepticism today the al Qaeda leader had indeed been killed.
"America has not shown any evidence or proof to support this claim," the Taliban statement said.
It is unclear if additional video or audio of Monday’s raid on bin Laden’s compound in Pakistan can also be released. The Navy SEALS involved in the firefight were reportedly wearing helmet cameras that recorded the fighting.
Some families of 9/11 victims called on the government to release the photos and video to verify bin Laden’s death and silence conspiracy theorists.
"There are always going to be questions and people who do question such things as this. I feel it may be appropriate to quiet these questions," said Sally Regenhard of the Bronx, who lost her 28-year-old firefighter son in the World Trade Center collapse.
It would not be the first time the U.S. has released images of enemies killed in military operations. In 2009, photos of the bloodied corpses of Saddam Hussein’s sons, Uday and Qusay, were made public after a U.S. raid on a house in Mosul, Iraq.
At the time, U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said the Iraqi people "deserve that confirmation."
This time, the questions are more complicated. Will images of bin Laden’s dead body incite more terrorism? In the age of Photoshop and digital manipulation, can a photo or video really serve as proof of a death? And when grisly images are released, do media organizations have a duty to publish them?
Shaheen Ayubi, an international politics professor at Rutgers-Camden, said distributing photos of bin Laden’s dead body could have a variety of effects in the Middle East.
"I don’t think it will affect those who are educated," said Ayubi, a native of Pakistan and author of several books on Middle East politics.
But the photos could inflame the masses, especially bin Laden’s fellow Wahabi Muslims, the professor said. Some may view an image of a dead body as a violation of the sect’s customs.
"Historically speaking, they don’t like photos being taken," Ayubi said.
Other experts said the benefits of releasing the photos and video outweighs the danger of upsetting Muslims.
"I don’t know if it’s really going to make the situation any worse. It will upset some people — but those people are already upset," said Wojtek Wolfe, a Rutgers-Camden professor and author of "Winning the War of Words: Selling the War on Terror from Afghanistan to Iraq."
An image of bin Laden’s dead body could become "the most seen photograph in contemporary history," Wolfe said.
Charles Bierbauer, a former CNN White House correspondent and dean of the College of Mass Communications and Information Studies at University of South Carolina, said the photo’s place in history may be less prominent than some are predicting.
"Those who want to put it on t-shirts and march through the towns of Pakistan will do so," Bierbauer said. "It will fade after time."
U.S. officials also have little to lose if they release the video recorded by the Navy SEALS of the firefight at bin Laden’s compound, said Fred Pushies, the author of several books about military special ops teams. It is unlikely the footage of bin Laden’s shooting would give away any military secrets.
"As far as seeing the videos or the pictures of these guys kicking the doors in and taking him out, you’re not going to see anything you won’t see in six months when Hollywood makes the movie," Pushies said.
U.S. officials prepare to release photographic evidence of Osama bin Laden's death | NJ.com
He was in the middle of retired ISI and Military officials. Down the block from there west point. Bigger than any other residence in the area, I'm told, by eight times as much. And, yes I've seen the place. The damn place looks like a fortress, and even me, if I lived near that place, I'd be like something is shady going on in that place. You would think, your counter intel guys, would be a little bit smarter than me. I'll bet there were even kids that probably thought, look at that fortress, I bet some bad guy is held up in there! Or some Government official. The Government, being the Government, should know that no Government official lives there, and has no ties to the ISI, if in fact they weren't involved. That only leaves - bad guy must be held up in there. This place is like the equivalent of a Barracks or Castle in the middle of peasant farms. It literally has farms right next to it, and when you look up, there are 15 foot walls. Thats like almost two stories walls! I bet even the main ISI building doesn't have walls like that or the Presidential palace. That might be bigger walls than the Green zone in Iraq! Just talking about height. Not square feet. Why would anyone build a piece of crap place like that, with barely any balcony's, and plants, yard, or windows? Have no telephone, or internet? The walls look better then the house it's self.
If you walked by there, you would think either some ex-retired big shout lives there or someone connected with crime, drugs or terrorism? Granted, I know you wouldn't think OBL lived there. But you would certainly investigate. Nice SUV's pulling up too the place, seclusion, high walls. Looks like a juicy terrorist spot wouldn't it?
Does it get any better than that? I mean what more could you ask for, being in an area of ex-military officials, what? Maybe the presidential palace could be worse!But that would take 2nd place by far. Thats pretty sad.
It is close to a certainty that some elements of the Pakistani establishment were involved in harboring Bin Laden; with enough influence to make local authorities look the other way to a fortress like building in their midst inside a large military cantonment.
Though I would say it would be extremely unlikely that those at the very top like Zardari or even Kayani were aware; atleast of any specific information regarding the location of Bin Laden; if anything like that came out it could be catastrophic for Pakistan.
1. Geronimo was a terrorist who hit farmers and ranchers and ran from organize dmilitary forces.
2. the US military pursued him into the lands of another nation.
3. crazy unexpected almost desperate action.
4. Geronimo did hide in a cave
After Osama bin Laden's death, Congress rethinks aid to Pakistan
The killing of Osama bin Laden could have a profound effect on three big issues in American policy: aid to Pakistan, the usefulness of harsh interrogation techniques, and the Afghanistan war.
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Senate majority leader Harry Reid (r.) and Sen. Carl Levin talks to reporters on Capitol Hill in Washington Monday about the operation that took down Osama bin Laden.
J. Scott Applewhite/AP
After Osama bin Laden's death, Congress rethinks aid to Pakistan - CSMonitor.com
By Gail Russell Chaddock, Staff writer / May 3, 2011
Washington
In a rare standing vote, US senators voted unanimously on Tuesday to honor the members of the military and intelligence community who killed Osama bin Laden.
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It’s a procedure reserved for solemn moments, such as the vote for emergency funding after the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, which was also unanimous.
Success in the hunt for Mr. bin Laden, which eluded both Presidents Clinton and Bush, gives President Obama new credibility at home and abroad in his leadership on national security. But the fallout from this operation also has reopened three crucial topics for debate, all of which produce anything but unanimity on Capitol Hill: relations with Pakistan, the value of interrogation techniques critics call torture in the hunt for bin Laden, and the ongoing role of US forces in Afghanistan.
IN PICTURES: Top 5 Al Qaeda leaders still hiding in Pakistan
"It clearly has a ripple effect in the region, but in ways that may create a whole series of new challenges for Obama,” says Norman Ornstein, resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington.
Aid to Pakistan
A top concern for many lawmakers was what Pakistan knew about bin Laden’s fortified complex in a garrison town about 75 miles by road from the Pakistani capital. In floor speeches, congressional hearings and comments off the floor, lawmakers challenged whether the US should continue military and economic assistance to a nation that may not be committed to the defeat of Al Qaeda.
“In a town where the Pakistani military and intelligence services own a large share of the property, Al Qaeda appears to have built a massive complex, ringed by walls as high as 18 feet, protected by barbed wire, as the dedicated hiding place for Osama bin Laden,” said Sen. Carl Levin (D) of Michigan, who chairs the Senate Armed Services Committee during Tuesday’s floor debate on the resolution.
“The American people [who] provided billions of dollars of aid to the Pakistani government deserve to know whether elements of Pakistan’s military and intelligence services or local officials knew of bin Laden’s location over the five years or so he was there – and if they did not know, how that could possibly be the case.”
Rep. Ted Poe (R) of Texas is proposing legislation that would cut off future aid unless the US State Department certifies that Pakistan was not “providing sanctuary” to bin Laden. The Obama administration is requesting $3 billion in foreign aid to Pakistan in fiscal year 2012, along with $2.3 billion in funding to boost that nation’s counterterrorism capacity.
Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D) of New Jersey called for suspending US aid immediately. “Before we send another dime, we need to know whether Pakistan truly stands with us in the fight against terrorism,” he said in a statement on Monday.
But the Obama administration and many Republicans supporting the war effort in Afghanistan are urging caution. “Cooperation with Pakistan helped lead us to bin Laden and the compound in which we was hiding,” said Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in a press briefing on Monday. “Going forward, we are absolutely committed to continuing that cooperation."
The top Republican on the Senate panel that funds US foreign assistance also took a cautionary tone. “Pakistan can’t be trusted, nor can it be abandoned,” said Sen. Lindsey Graham (R) of South Carolina, in comments to reporters on Tuesday.
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* Osama bin Laden - All coverage
Did torture provide the breakthrough?
A second line of inquiry concerns just how US officials gained the critical intelligence needed to locate bin Laden – especially, whether “enhanced interrogation techniques,” which critics say amount to torture and which Mr. Obama has banned, contributed to the outcome. The USA Patriot Act, passed after the 9/11 attacks to authorize new law-enforcement and intelligence powers, is set to expire this month.
In a briefing with reporters, Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D) of California, who chairs the Senate intelligence panel, said that she did not believe that torture techniques were a factor in the outcome. “To the best of our knowledge, based on a look, none of it came due to harsh interrogation practices,” she said on Tuesday.
Democrats on the intelligence panel are investigating Bush-era interrogation practices.
On Monday, Rep. Peter King (R) of New York, who chairs the House Homeland Security Committee, told Fox News that “we obtained that information through waterboarding.”
“So for those who say that waterboarding doesn’t work, who say it should be stopped and never used again, we got vital information which directly led us to bin Laden,” he added.
Asked to comment on whether Congress should reopen the issue of interrogation techniques, House majority leader Eric Cantor (R) of Virginia told reporters on Tuesday that “information gained, if valuable in saving American lives, in increasing the security of the United States, is ... a policy that we should have in place.”
The Afghanistan war
But the larger question is how bin Laden’s death will impact ongoing support for the US war effort in Afghanistan, now set to begin to wind down in July. For many Democrats, especially those opposing the wars in Iraq and the buildup in Afghanistan, bin Laden’s death signals an end to the mission first proclaimed by the Bush administration.
“I hope the killing of bin Laden signals the chapter of our military being extended in that part of the world will end, and we will conclude that actionable intelligence and clandestine operations will allow us to deal with our enemies effectively,” says Rep. Marcy Kaptur (D) of Ohio, a member of the Defense Appropriations subcommittee.
Senate Republicans Tuesday aimed to counter that conclusion. Bin Laden’s end “doesn’t change the challenge of radical Islam,” says Sen. John McCain (R) of Arizona, the top Republican on the Armed Services Committee. “We’re going to be in a struggle with radical Islam well into this century.”
Experts offered some support for Senator McCain's view. “A lot of people seemed to suggest there will be a temptation to declare victory and come home,” says Michael O’Hanlon, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. “Emotionally, that’s what a lot of people want. But I think there’s a possibility that works in another direction: It gives a boost of confidence in a long slog in a difficult part of the world. The boost to our confidence may count for something."
To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway
OK, so you think he is alive while Hilal thinks he died years ago. I'm not au fait with the current level of discourse in Pakistan. Are these sorts of paranoid fantasies typical? Are they just the province of the better educated or are they widespread. More worrying, are people less educated than yourselves actually crazier? Thanks for the insight, it is informative.
Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C
There is a tendency in certain parts of the world to put a lot of faith in conspiracy theories in what I consider to be a coping mechanism for realities that are too difficult for them to face.
Anti-Americanism pulses through Pakistani town where Osama bin Laden was killed
By Issam Ahmed Issam Ahmed Tue May 3, 12:45 pm ET
Abbottabad, Pakistan – Residents in the area surrounding the compound where Osama bin Laden was killed in Abbottabad, say Pakistani security officials only arrived on the scene after Sunday's night's fighting had ended and did not know what had happened or where it happened.
“The patrol cars arrived 20 minutes after the firefight. They asked people where the explosions had happened,” says Muhammad Sadiq, a young Islamic teacher at the local mosque. "The Pakistan Army is based here, why weren't they trusted to arrest him?" he adds.
IN PICTURES: World reaction to Osama bin Laden's death
The details appear to confirm US officials' accounts that Pakistani authorities were neither involved in nor briefed on the US operation to capture the Al Qaeda leader. That realization is bolstering the sense here that Pakistan’s sovereignty has been violated, and anti-American passions are now pulsing through this garrison town.
“The Pakistani Army had no idea what was going on. They charged in without a clue,” says a construction worker who spoke on condition of anonymity. “For the Americans to come here and take people away from our area is a big insult to us. If I had been there I would have killed the Americans myself.”
Why locals didn't know bin Laden was there
Neighbors and residents interviewed by the Monitor said they had never seen bin Laden, but were familiar with two middle-aged Pashtun brothers cited in reports as his couriers, named Ahmed and Rashid.
“They were very well liked in the area,” says Bashir, who says the “family” had been in the area for close to seven years. “They would go to peoples' houses sometimes participate in peoples' family celebrations like births and condolences, but would never call people to their own house,” he adds.
Ahmad Jan, a teenage student whose home overlooked the compound, says he recalls that every morning a bright red truck would enter the compound, and leave at night. “I would pass by the house sometimes and think they were some kind of special people.”
IN PICTURES: World reaction to Osama bin Laden's death
Despite these oddities, few seemed interested in knowing more about the resident of the compound whom most assumed were wealthy Pashtun migrants, or “Khan jees” in local slang.
The high barbed-wire walls were seen as a token of the family’s religious conservatism.
“Some people guessed there may be more to it than met the eye, but no one could imagine it was [bin Laden],” adds Munawar Iqbal, a construction boss whose property overlooks the compound. “But if we knew [it was bin Laden] we would protect him as our guest. Whatever you say about him, he was a brave man. ”
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A steady fire was seen rising from the compound through Tuesday morning and afternoon, with many speculating that the last of the building’s furniture was being burned. By late afternoon, the house was handed over to police and members of the public, and press flocked to the building’s perimeter, which contained a large, empty courtyard surrounded by scorched walls. Children played in the maize fields around the compound, picking up small pieces of the helicopter that was destroyed during the raid.
Despite such scenes, though, there is a palpable sense of anger here at both the United States and Pakistan’s civilian government, whom many believe have “sold out” the country.
“America calls itself a champion of democracy and justice, but where is the justice here? There was no due process, it seems like rule of the jungle,” says Abdur Razzak Abbasi, a local leader with the Jaamat-e-Islami political party. Many Pakistanis also feel the decision to bury bin Laden at sea was a desecration. Bashir, the construction worker, warns: “Osama may be more dangerous to the West dead than he was alive.”
Protests by religious parties were held across Pakistan Monday evening, including a funeral prayer for bin Laden held by the banned Jamaat-ud-Dawa in Lahore, though have so far remained fairly limited.
IN PICTURES: World reaction to Osama bin Laden's death
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To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway
Well that's probably true, though after this latest incident with OBL I'm guessing Panetta won't be the only one
Socialism is simply the Collective denial of responsibility.
You owe us an introduction long before now. I hate rude people barging into my home unannounced.
"...its quite visible from his tone and his behaviour , this is the guy Pakistan needs to watch out for..."
Soon Panetta will have a big DoD club in his hand.
I've a choice of believing A.M and your speculation or the comments made by Brennan, Duputy Nat'l Security Advisor For Counter-Terrorism and Leon Panetta, DCI.
Easy choice.
I only pray one thing. That our folks DID lie and we lifted with a live OBL. He'll never see the light of day nor a court. Once his useful purpose ends he'll quietly assume his purported state as a dead man.
That would be the best of all possible speculation IMV.
Now go do the right thing or get the fcuk outta here.
"This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
"The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs
Yeah but not over burning a flag or a book. We can take a joke, however mean spirited. We just take human lives seriously.
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
You know...LAPD could have "planted" that DNA sample...
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
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