Osama Bin Laden is dead and his corpse is in US hands.

**Julie** · 03 May 11,, 12:34

Originally Posted by Hilal123

For now there will be a lot of huffing and puffing that will go on over bin laden getting killed in Pakistan but in about 3 months time we'll start to see changes in the US policy with regards to Pakistan

Change in policy in what regard?

**Roosveltrepub** · 03 May 11,, 12:38

I'll believe what the USA says on the intel and lead up to this. History is written by the victors. What Pakistani intelligence knew is probably never going to be known definitively. One thing is certain He wasn't hiding in a cave and the number of people who knew his location was still probably small given the rewards on his head. Money > religous ferver in enough people we would of known sooner.

**Enzo Ferrari** · 03 May 11,, 12:51

Well done, Americans!

**Hilal123** · 03 May 11,, 13:12

Originally Posted by Julie

Change in policy in what regard?

There can be many things

1. there could be reduction of the CIA foot print from Pakistan now that bin laden is dead
2. there could be more financial/mil tech rewards offered
3. Some of Pakistn's strategic concerns about indian presence in a'stan could be addressed

There are lot of things that Pakistan could get out of the US in return for OBL

this is just my guess

**n21** · 03 May 11,, 13:21

Originally Posted by Julie

But I read where this compound was in a "prominent" upscale neighborhood surrounded by many retired ISI military. How could military professionals miss an assessment of such a large compound with 15'-18' foot walls with barbwire? The military was either paid lots of money to look the other way, or they are very poor soldiers. Not good either way.

The building was built in 2005 and was in the name of Osama's two brothers. Pakistan did not "offer him up" the tip came from a gitmo detainee regarding the courier, and it took two more years to track the courier, which led the US there by a phone call the courier made.

In this part of world, my business is everyone's business. When a big house is been built, every man on the street would want to know whom does the house below to. And specially if you have a house with tall walls and camera installed. You would definitely want to know. If a rich man just plans to build a house, note just plans, the news spreads like wildfire.

As i said, my business is everyone's business. People around would have known there is some one important, may be a politician, but some one important. Within the PA ranks around the area, their might have been hints. May be Omar or some Taliban leader. I have a feeling listening to "PA chatter" by NSA must have been a major contributor.

**Sumku** · 03 May 11,, 13:41

Originally Posted by Hilal123

There can be many things
3. Some of Pakistn's strategic concerns about indian presence in a'stan could be addressed
this is just my guess

Not sure about the first 2 but your guess work is bang on with regards to 3rd.

If(IF) Pakistan has really helped US get to OBL(despite of what everyone is saying), Pakistan asking for US to put pressure on India to downsize its mission in Afghanistan would be the first. There can be no certain ways of knowing now,outside of small group on both sides which gets to see the true and bigger picture.

Next couple of months would be a key...If US top echelon states something to that effect in public OR if India starts to downsize its Mission in Afghanistan, we will know. There is no way India could achieve 9-10% growth year or year without US help. India's mission in Afghanistan would then become 2nd priority to Indian Economic Strive.

If India starts downsizing its mission in Afghanistan in next 3-4 months, we can come back here and say that Yes, Pakistan helped US in getting rid of OBL. Till such time.....

**hanswu25** · 03 May 11,, 13:43

I wonder who would get the 25M bounty?

**Agnostic Muslim** · 03 May 11,, 13:45

Originally Posted by n21

This was done after PA was told about the ops. The first indication of the ops was given by the IT chap who was tweeting realtime.

No, the accounts are pretty clear that this was during the ops - power was cut, people were asked to stay indoors, and those with generators told to turn off their lights. There would be no need for these precautions (aside from staying indoors and cordoning of the perimeter) in the aftermath of the ops. The eyewitness reports you are referring to are from people talking about Monday morning.

His first tweet ,he was wanted to use a huge fly swatter as choppers were disturbing his sleep. he had no idea what was going on.

Needless to say he had to have power to use his internet.

Depends on how much juice his laptop (if that is what he was using) had when the power went out.

He also stopped tweeting for a while and later reported that he had to wait for the power to come back.

The time he stopped tweeting would coincide with the time the operation was going on.

As far as the CT about where the choppers came from , let me add mine.
It came from India. Abbotabad is so close to the Indian border and a perfect path as the whole way is full of mountains.Very easy to evade radars. There you go. My own CT!

Highly implausible because it would be extremely risky - anything out of the East would be taken as hostile, and that would be one direction the Military would be anticipating activity from.

**Sumku** · 03 May 11,, 13:47

Originally Posted by Hilal123

There can be many things

1. there could be reduction of the CIA foot print from Pakistan now that bin laden is dead
2. there could be more financial/mil tech rewards offered
3. Some of Pakistn's strategic concerns about indian presence in a'stan could be addressed

There are lot of things that Pakistan could get out of the US in return for OBL

this is just my guess

I really dont think that the First is going to happen anytime soon. Remember, what got OBL was not just TECHINT but TECHINT as well as HUMINT and no country would like to waste the Billions spent to develop such a strong HUMINT just because one of the objectives are met, especially when the country in question(read Pakistan) is also deemed to be very close to one of the Top Armed Rival Country(Read China). At this stage, it would not be wrong to safely assume that CIA has more robust HUMINT network inside Pakistan than ISI itself. The close analysis of this operation would tell that CIA was not only able to infiltrate AQ Network but has also been able to successfully infiltrate ISI and PA at the very top positions.

**Agnostic Muslim** · 03 May 11,, 13:50

Originally Posted by Roosveltrepub

I'll believe what the USA says on the intel and lead up to this. History is written by the victors.

The GoP has officially supported the US account completely and with enthusiasm, which in itself is rather fishy given their concerns about 'public opinion related to sovereignty', so it does not appear there will be any 'official' contesting of the 'history being written' currently, by this GoP at least.

Nonetheless, there is no reason the 'loopholes' in the 'history' being presented currently should not be pointed out, especially while the incident is fresh and eyewitness accounts contradicting the 'official history' have not been drowned out in the public domain yet.

What Pakistani intelligence knew is probably never going to be known definitively. One thing is certain He wasn't hiding in a cave and the number of people who knew his location was still probably small given the rewards on his head. Money > religous ferver in enough people we would of known sooner.

As I pointed out before, when OBL moved to the compound would explain a lot. The following account in the BBC would suggest that Pakistan did investigate the compound in 2003, and that OBL moved into it years later.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13268517

**Sumku** · 03 May 11,, 13:53

Originally Posted by Agnostic Muslim

Highly implausible because it would be extremely risky - anything out of the East would be taken as hostile, and that would be one direction the Military would be anticipating activity from.

Absolutely wrong.Just after Kargil, a UAV from IAF had entered Pak Airspace somewhere from Poonch and exited from the Punjab Airspace...without being shot down and without getting noticed. One was shot down by PAF after it been inside Pak Airspace for almost 2 hours.

However having said that, this is not a thread about India vs Pakistan. So lets not disgress from the main topic. Thanks

**Agnostic Muslim** · 03 May 11,, 13:53

Originally Posted by Sumku

The close analysis of this operation would tell that CIA was not only able to infiltrate AQ Network but has also been able to successfully infiltrate ISI and PA at the very top positions.

What 'close analysis'?

**Agnostic Muslim** · 03 May 11,, 13:56

Originally Posted by Sumku

Absolutely wrong.Just after Kargil, a UAV from IAF had entered Pak Airspace somewhere from Poonch and exited from the Punjab Airspace...without being shot down and without getting noticed. One was shot down by PAF after it been inside Pak Airspace for almost 2 hours.

A small UAV along the lines of the ones India operates is not comparable to multiple choppers carrying an assault team. They racket alone would be impossible to hide in one of the most heavily militarized regions in the world, a region with soldiers on alert for hostile action from the other side.

**Sumku** · 03 May 11,, 13:57

Originally Posted by Agnostic Muslim

What 'close analysis'?

Searching for a recent news article that I read a few days back. At that time it looked like a one another story but if you are willing to connect the dots then it means something to me...may be not to experts but it means something to me.

Will post once I get my hands on it.

**Wayfarer** · 03 May 11,, 14:02

Ahh.. how sometimes I long for the simple cavemen days. Crack a rock over his skull if you dislike the look of him... no excuses, no pretensions.

I'll raise you to that glass good sir.

The world is a better place.