Thread: Top 5 Best Trained Infantry

col. yu,

somewhat off-topic but,

Linebacker I and II which galvanized their opposition, the North might have very well given up their dreams of conquering the south.

from my studies of the VN war, it seems that the linebacker operations were valuable in cutting up NVA supply routes. in fact, some of the books i've read on the subject said that the linebacker operations (especially number 2) was what drove the north vietnamese back to the negotation tables.

any comments? in your estimation how badly WERE the NVA hurt by the linebacker operations? from what you said it seems like whatever losses north vietnam might have had logistically was made up by renewed national will to fight.

Originally Posted by troung

The fact was Germany couldn't properly support their military...

Agreed, but that does not change the fact that if Army Group Center had been allowed to go on to Moscow as originally planned in 1941, or even as lat as 1944 if Hitler had allowed those Panzer divisions to be released on D-Day when they could have made a difference.

Originally Posted by ARW_cpl

Wait a moment whats this about points, suddenly this is a competition .
seriously though, Do you deny that Hitlers blatent incompetence and direct interference in military affairs contributed greatly to the way in which WW2 turned out. Yes there were other factors (many and some quite big) that contributed as well. Oh by the way I did not mention his sanity merely his lack of military clout .

Many historians agree that Hitler saved the day during the Soviet counteroffensive of Winter '41. His stand fast order avoided a general rout.
Also, from OKW records, there is his statement about the upcoming Kursk offensive "when I think of it, I feel like puking" or something like that. Most generals were instead quite keen on it.
Even during the battle of Stalingrad, where he was accused of causing the total loss of VI Army, he probably wasn't so wrong. The Soviets had formidable forces tied up in the siege and if they had been freed it is very possible that the entire Army Group A would have been cut off.
After the end of the war it was easy for German generals (who were alive) to put all the blame on Hitler (who was dead).
Of course he did screw up, and mightly so, but the theory that Germany without Hitler would have performed much better doesn't hold water.

Originally Posted by astralis

in your estimation how badly WERE the NVA hurt by the linebacker operations? from what you said it seems like whatever losses north vietnam might have had logistically was made up by renewed national will to fight.

Hanoi was on the verge of economic collapse as a result of LB I & II. Their infrastructures, especially food distribution, was blasted to smitherines. No one could have come out of those bombing campaigns equal to a couple of years of WWII tonnage unhurt to the point of collapse.

However, LB I and II brought the war home to the people. Before, the war was always in the south. You hear news about it and talk about the liberation of the south but the war really wasn't about home. The North had the same kind of revulsion the Americans had about the war in the south.

NVA operations were in the decline before LB I and II. However, after LB I and II, this was no longer a war of liberation but of national survival.

Originally Posted by thesaint

Of course he did screw up, and mightly so, but the theory that Germany without Hitler would have performed much better doesn't hold water.

Without his constant micro-management and meddling into...everything...I would say yes, Germany would have performed much better without Hitler.
Interestingly enough, without Hitler it's unlikely that Germany would have took the course that it did...
Although it can also be argued if Hitler hadnt been the man, it would've been someone else.

Originally Posted by troung

The fact was Germany couldn't properly support their military...

Check out German small arms, trucks, mortars and artillery...

Things like the sFH-443 (r), Haubitze 520 (i), Haubitze 503 (r), and FK-280 (e) show they were not able to arm their military. Or the Gewehr 242 (f), Gewher 254 (r), Leicht MG-138 (e) show the state of real German infantry units during the war. Granatwerfer 274 (r), Gebirgsgrantawefer 328 (r), Granatwerfer 176 (i) and so forth...

And that is not even factoring in the mess of German made stuff...

But then again I doubt you take much of a look at the German military past "cool" stuff like fighters, MP-40s and Tigers...

So a few massive tanks unable to move due to no aircover, no fuel and being prone to breaking down are of no use if they are 40 miles away compared to a platoon of Shermans or T-34s. And those Shermans and T-34s are operating under friendly skies and well supported with artillery and fuel.

If anything, being able to fight effectively with such mixed equipment is more testimony to the German soldier's skill. You often make note of the poor logistics; yet in reality foreign or obsolete weapons were not used much by frontline troops at all until the end of the war.