Thread: M1A2 vs T-80U

That's exactly what I said!

The T-80B has acquisition range of 1300 meters at night and the T-80U had range of 2600 meters at night and it is for gun rounds only. The new system has acquisition range of 3000 meters.

What I said was absolutly right.

The M1 Abrams can see targets in excess of 5000 meters with thermal scope.

I don't know what's pathetic the fact that you are talking about us on another forum or the fact that you are continuely claiming the T-80U is a supperior tank compared to the M1 Abrams.

so you can put a random but strong cowboy into hte loaders position?
you need to take the round out, turn it around (in the tight quarters it's pretty hard) put it into the gun, close the breech....

You obviously have not seen the insides of an M1 Abrams...


As you can see in this picture there is plenty of room to move around the shell. The shells are stored directly behind, he will grab it flip it around load it in and flick the breach down. This will take about 6-10 seconds depending on loader.

Just watch some movies of the loading, there are plenty out on the internet.

"Sniper you're an idiot, I don't think your claim of having anything to do with armor is true, I think you're some 15 year old queer, fat, git behind a keyboard."

Too bad, cause you're wrong.

Just ask any of the members of the board that know me personally....and have seen the army pictures all prominently displaying.....me.

Those members would be Horrido and Big Thug.

LOL.

Sorry troll, but my first hand knowledge, experience and information is of 'slightly' higher quality than your silly videogame data.

I doubt you've ever even been in a tank.

I once 'killed' six tanks(with crews) on manuevers in 15 minutes with a rifle while playing OPFOR.

I've had OPFOR M-1's drive right by my position at night so close the earth shook, while my team remained undetected.

I've had OPFOR Abrams get around my units flanks and into our rear in field problems. They hit so fast and quiet it made your head spin.

I actually KNOW what it's like to face them in (simulated) battle.

I've also faced Russian tanks on three occasions at NTC, in the hands of the US 11th ACR....a force that has no peer in the whole of the Russian Army.

Ever gone up against HINDs in exercises? I have.

What's your claim to fame skippy?

Tell you what. You spend three years in a mechanized infantry division as an 11B4 with a secondary 11C MOS, work as a support FO for the USAFAC, cycle NTC three times, and earn a non commisioned officers rank- like i did- then we'll talk.

Until then, you have nothing of value to add. Keep up the insults, and you will be banned on top of it all troll.

My trigger finger is itching....

Originally Posted by Praxus

That's exactly what I said!

The T-80B has acquisition range of 1300 meters at night and the T-80U had range of 2600 meters at night and it is for gun rounds only. The new system has acquisition range of 3000 meters.

the T80U also has the AGAVA-2 thermal sight and the French SAGEM ALIS thermal sight can also be installed which willpermit the launching of ATGM's at night.

The M1 Abrams can see targets in excess of 5000 meters with thermal scope.

will it be able to engage them at those ranges?
the T80 will be able to engage the M1 at night with an ATGM or a APFSDS at the same range, using the ALIS or the AGAVA-2 thermal sights.

I don't know what's pathetic the fact that you are talking about us on another forum or the fact that you are continuely claiming the T-80U is a supperior tank compared to the M1 Abrams.

im not talking about you on the other forum.
someone else is just pointing out the stupidity expressed by the people on these forums when it comes to comparing american equipment to other equipment.

You obviously have not seen the insides of an M1 Abrams...

yes i have.

As you can see in this picture there is plenty of room to move around the shell. The shells are stored directly behind, he will grab it flip it around load it in and flick the breach down. This will take about 6-10 seconds depending on loader.

1. the picture does not work.
2. when i said take it out, i meant take it out of the storage compartment.
3. first it was 12 shots a minute (5 seconds to load) now it's 6-10 seconds, the rate is constatly dropping.

"yes i have."

When? When were you inside an Abrams....and where?

The ROF for the M-1 is 4 sec/rd for a well trained loader in the first minute, and 5-6sec/rd sustained ROF thereafter.

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

"yes i have."

When? When were you inside an Abrams....and where?

i said i saw the insides of an abrams.

the T80U also has the AGAVA-2 thermal sight and the French SAGEM ALIS thermal sight can also be installed which willpermit the launching of ATGM's at night.

Dude it can detect targets at 3000 meters with it's AGAVA-2 Thermal Sight not 5000 like the Abrams can.

will it be able to engage them at those ranges?
the T80 will be able to engage the M1 at night with an ATGM or a APFSDS at the same range, using the ALIS or the AGAVA-2 thermal sights.

ATGM's are worthless against the front armor of the tank which is what will happen in manouver warfare(we would be the one manouvering). Russian 125mm APFSDS rounds are vastly inferior compared to the 120mm rounds that NATO uses. This mainly has to do with the fact that the Discarding Sabot and penetrator are seperate from the propellent meaning the SABOT can not protrude very far into the powder. Where with the 120mm round it can have a long penetrater deep into the powder.

Yes it can engage a tank at 5000 meters and there is a greater chance of penetrating T-80 armor then the ATGM does against the front armor of the M1 Abrams.

Russian APFSDS rounds can't penetrate Abrams frontal armor beyond 1500-2000 meters and that is being nice to the T-80U.

The new German 120mm gun on their Leopard 2A6 can easily destroy a T-80U at 5000 meters.

1. the picture does not work.
2. when i said take it out, i meant take it out of the storage compartment.
3. first it was 12 shots a minute (5 seconds to load) now it's 6-10 seconds, the rate is constatly dropping.

Holy Crap I posted one second off, my whole premis is collapsing :roll:

NOT!

i said i saw the insides of an abrams.

Answer the question!

When and where?!?!?!

Originally Posted by Praxus

Dude it can detect targets at 3000 meters with it's AGAVA-2 Thermal Sight not 5000 like the Abrams can.

it can detect and engage targets up to 5000 meters with the French ALIS thermal sight.
and read more about the Irtysh FCS please.

ATGM's are worthless against the front armor of the tank which is what will happen in manouver warfare(we would be the one manouvering).

the Kobra will hit the top of theturret not the frontal armour.
and where did dig up info that it will not penetrate the frontal armour?

Russian 125mm APFSDS rounds are vastly inferior compared to the 120mm rounds that NATO uses. This mainly has to do with the fact that the Discarding Sabot and penetrator are seperate from the propellent meaning the SABOT can not protrude very far into the powder. Where with the 120mm round it can have a long penetrater deep into the powder.

what powder?
the 125mm round from a T72 penetrated Leoprad 2's frontal armour, that is what i know for sure. now the Leopard 2 is just as wel as armoured as the Abrams.

Yes it can engage a tank at 5000 meters and there is a greater chance of penetrating T-80 armor then the ATGM does against the front armor of the M1 Abrams.

ok so in the gulf war, practically the M1 barely engaged T55's over a distance of 2000 meters. now it can engage targets up to 5000 meters, interesting. The T80U will engage an Abrams over a distance of 5000 meters, don't worry.

Russian APFSDS rounds can't penetrate Abrams frontal armor beyond 1500-2000 meters and that is being nice to the T-80U.
The new German 120mm gun on their Leopard 2A6 can easily destroy a T-80U at 5000 meters.

your sources being?

Answer the question!

When and where?!?!?!

is this supposed to be an interrogation?

seeing the insides and being inside are two different things.
do you know how many programs there areon many various channels about tanks???

PS: what is OFFICIAL data on the penetrating values of the Rheinmetal 120mm gun?
please post a reasonable source as well.

the Kobra will hit the top of theturret not the frontal armour.
and where did dig up info that it will not penetrate the frontal armour?

The AT-11 is replacing the Kobra. It is a laser riding ATGM meaning it can't do a top attack. The armour penetration for the AT-11 is 700mm. The declassified RHAe ratting for the Abrams on the frontal turret is 1300-1500mm. Here is the rest of the stats for the M1 Abrams armour.

(This is how much RHAe it has against targets impacting at 0 degrees)

Turret
800 - 900-Against Kinetic Energy(in mm of RHAe)
1,320 - 1,620- Against Chemical Energy(in mm of RHAe)

Glacis
560 - 590-Against Kinetic Energy(in mm of RHAe)
510 - 1,050- Against Chemical Energy(in mm of RHAe)

Lower Front Hull
580 - 650-Against Kinetic Energy(in mm of RHAe)
800 - 970- Against Chemical Energy(in mm of RHAe)

http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/abrams.htm

what powder?
the 125mm round from a T72 penetrated Leoprad 2's frontal armour, that is what i know for sure. now the Leopard 2 is just as wel as armoured as the Abrams.

You do know what stick powder is right?
It's the stuff in the cartridge that propells either the Discarding Sabot/Penetrator or the HEAT round or the HESH round or the HE/HEP round. You get the point now?

The autoloader on the T-80 and the T-72 have the warhead and the propellent sperated before it fires. This means you can't have an APFSDS round that has a long penetrator. The longer the penetrator and the densor it is and the faster it's moving the more it penetrates.


That is the M829 APFSDS round, as you can see the DU penetrator sticks into the powder. This is not the case with 2A46 ammunition because the propellent is seperate from the warhead.

Leopard 2A1-A3 is not it only weighs 55 tons where the Leopard 2A4-A6 weigh 65-69 tons.

First of all you don't specify what range and you don't specify what type of munition and you don't specify which version of the Leopard 2 you are talking about so how am I to know what you are talking about.

ok so in the gulf war, practically the M1 barely engaged T55's over a distance of 2000 meters. now it can engage targets up to 5000 meters, interesting. The T80U will engage an Abrams over a distance of 5000 meters, don't worry.

They engaged T-72 tanks and T-55 tanks in excess of 3500 meters during the war and that was with an older FLIR.

PS: what is OFFICIAL data on the penetrating values of the Rheinmetal 120mm gun?
please post a reasonable source as well.

There is no official data...
But the pre-M829 APFSDS(M829A1 was used in Gulf War, M829A2 is used to today and M829A3 is gonna replace that) had penetration of 600mm RHA at 2000 meters.

I would guess considering the weight and velocity the penetration would be around 700-800 at 2000 meters.

"They engaged T-72 tanks and T-55 tanks in excess of 3500 meters during the war and that was with an older FLIR."

That was also with the older A1 sabot. Now they use the A3, which has a greater S/D and aspect ratio than the older A1, as well as about 20% more velocity. It's a much flatter shooting projectile.

Added to this, the A2SEP has the latest in FLIR technology.

MPAT has VT settings from 300-5000 meters, btw.