Mandus Groups 105mm Hawkeye Howitzer

**ArtyEngineer** · 26 Oct 11,, 02:55

This should interest the Redlegs and Engineers amongst us

Mandus Group

Have developed a 105mm Howitzer the are calling the Hawkeye. I know some of the folks at Mandus Group very well having worked with them while they were Gov Employees of Rock Island.

This first Vid is of the very first firing of the system using what are know as "Sand Rounds"

This second vid is with the LINAPS Firecontrol System Integrated and firing some live rounds.

So who can tell me what the VERY unique thing about this weapon is and for a bonus point or maybe a cookie, what it is called.

Regards

Arty

**Gun Grape** · 26 Oct 11,, 04:52

Did I see the tube go forward before it moved rearward during recoil?

Some weird counterrecoil system?

That just looks wrong.

**Chogy** · 26 Oct 11,, 14:40

I noticed that too. Mass is thrown forward before ignition. This is very clever, IMO. The recoil must first overcome the inertia of the barrel assembly, and this probably allows the use of a lighter overall mass.

Open bolt 9mm submachine guns do the same thing... like the Uzi. The bolt starts at the rear, is released, strips a cartridge, and the primer is actually ignited before the bolt is fully forward. This allows for a lighter bolt, and also straight blowback operation for heavier pistol cartridges like the 9mm, vs some sort of semi-locked breech.

What is with the cables? Are they there for testing only?

**Albany Rifles** · 26 Oct 11,, 15:26

What kind of range and CEP are we talking about compared to the M119A2?

**ArtyEngineer** · 26 Oct 11,, 17:06

@Gun Grape,

You spotted it straight away. The weapon is loaded in the "Out of Battery" position. It is then released and the firing occurs as the tube is moving forwards. Its actually called a "Soft Recoil System"

@Chogy,

You got the principal behind it spot on. By first having to overcome the Inertia of the cannon tube moving forward combinded with a very high efficiency muzzle break means the recoiling forces actually transferring through the weapons structure are VERY Low.

The cables you see are for the Digital Fire Control System Bolted on. THis is as much a marketing tool for SELEX System showing how easy thier RIng Laser Gyro and assosiacted Control Interfaces can be adapted to anyones Artillery Sysstems. Its important to remember that this is a Technology/Concept Demonstrator and not something which in its current guise is being marketed as a fieldable weapon system.

@Albany,

My understanding is that they are using a modified M119 cannon tube so ballistic performance should be identical. I dont think they have got to teh stage of actually doing an honest to god "Precision and Accuracy Assesment" yet though. I understand why you asked the question though. By the time the weapon actually fires is it still pointing in the same direction it was when you finished loading it, and laying it on quadrant and deflection!!!!!

THis concept has been tried before, one of the competitiors to the M777 in original shoot off competition used this type of recoil system......funnily enough it was developed by Rock Island Arsenal......Hmmmmmm.

Problam was that while the use of this recoil did allow a lightweaight structure to survive the recoil loads, it was so light that the whole structure moved all over teh place as the 155 tube moved forwards after release but before firing. By the time they would have beefed up the structure to not do that wel you no longer would have had a lightweight system needing the "Soft Recoil System" in the first place.

Having watched these vides I have to say I dont think that porblem exists here with eth 105mm tube being so much lighter and shorter than a 155mm 39 Cal tube.

Now there are some other very specific issues with this type of system. Im gonna let Gun Grape and hopefully S2 have a go at listing what they think these "Issues" could be.

Regards

Arty

**Albany Rifles** · 26 Oct 11,, 19:28

I am just wondering if the cradle, etc, is robust enough to carry the impact over a full service life.

I imagine when on a gun carriage it would look different.

**BD1** · 26 Oct 11,, 22:36

too bad the libyan civil war just ended or the world would had seen homemade version of it mounted on a wheelbarrow or toyota hilux

**jlvfr** · 14 Nov 11,, 16:08

Two questions from the uninformed:
-the truck shakes like hell on firing. won't that ruin the acuracy?
-if the crew has to climb up, how come there's no built-in ladder/ramp!?

**1979** · 14 Nov 11,, 17:56

Not a expert, but by the time you see the shaking, the shell had already left the barrel.

**Monash** · 26 Nov 11,, 03:11

"I noticed that to." Ditto. But does anyone really need it? What with all the various vehicle mounted mortar systems out there plus 155mmm arty units.

S2 · 26 Nov 11,, 05:10

"...with all the various vehicle mounted mortar systems out there plus 155mmm arty units."

What fills the gap for light infantry artillery support beyond the range of your vehicle-mounted mortar systems? 155mm artillery?

Perhaps. Perhaps not. Strategic, operational and tactically mobile fire support remain considerations to rapid-deployable light infantry.

**omon** · 26 Nov 11,, 05:15

to me looks like 2 hydrolic cylinders springed, the shell's friction pulls the barrel foward ,then when it left the barrel, the tube moves back. plus muzzle brake (there was a pistol made with the same principle over 100years ago.)
but i might be wrong.

**Monash** · 26 Nov 11,, 05:55

Originally Posted by S2

"...with all the various vehicle mounted mortar systems out there plus 155mmm arty units."

What fills the gap for light infantry artillery support beyond the range of your vehicle-mounted mortar systems? 155mm artillery?

Perhaps. Perhaps not. Strategic, operational and tactically mobile fire support remain considerations to rapid-deployable light infantry.

Ye're I get that but to the extent that there are already other 105mm systems out there (doesn't the Stryker series include one for example?) Do we really need another - even one like this that may offer improved performance according to certain criteria?

S2 · 26 Nov 11,, 07:34

"...doesn't the Stryker series include one for example?"

Yes but it's a direct fire high velocity anti tank weapon. This isn't. It's a howitzer. There may or may not be advantages. That's to be determined by the test and validation process. I'm sure it would be extensive. This is simply a prototype and there's a long road ahead before such is actually fielded to our troops.