Type 90(Japanese) vs. Type 98(Chinese)

**Lunatock** · 06 Oct 03,, 19:37

Originally posted by Praxus
You have no room to talk about anything because you continuely avoid this question...

WHAT UNIT WERE YOU IN?
WHAT MILITARY WERE YOU IN?
WHAT WAS YOUR MOS?
WHAT WAS YOUR RANK?

Now answer the FUCKING question you God Damn European dip shit.

I did miss that post. Please try to curb behavior that harsh Praxus.

**Stinger** · 06 Oct 03,, 19:44

Originally posted by Lunatock
I did miss that post. Please try to curb behavior that harsh Praxus.

I didn't think European was that bad a word.

**TopHatter** · 06 Oct 03,, 19:47

Axl,
Yes, if that helo is practically sitting still, then perhaps a main gun could hit it. I just can't see that happening. The way you describe things, if a tank sees a helo, it should have minimal difficulty in tracking and destroying with the main gun.
Sorry, but just does not hold water and in the absence of any credentials on your part, I doubt anybody here will believe that, least of all me.

**Praxus** · 06 Oct 03,, 20:20

@M21Sniper
a helicopter is full of hydraulics and electronics. don't think that it likes a penetration. moreover you have to see the speed and the resulting shockwave.

Thats in the tail area, chances are it will hit the open cabin through the bottom of the aircraft or the side of it and do nothing to the aircraft. It is not a reliable way on knocking down an aircraft. You can forget about hitting the A-10.

M21Sniper already explained to you that the tiny ammount of armour on a helicopter is not enough for the penetration to cause the round to ignite in the air(as he put it "pyrophoric ignition").

sorry man, but if a >4kg round hits the helicopter with >1600m/s it will seriously damage it. i don't have to go over to another forum, just because you are not able to explane it to me.

It will go right through it, because the energy can not be transfered to the helicopter because the thin alluminum hule offers little resistence, for there to be a significant ammount of energy transfered from the round to the helicopters structure.

**Bill** · 06 Oct 03,, 23:40

You pay excellent attention Praxus, because that was exactly what i said earlier.

Axl, you are greatly, greatly overestimating the volume of an LRP's pressure wave.

A sabot would put a 2" hole right through a helo, and unless it hit something hard and thick, that's all it would do.

Even if it hits a hydraulic line, they're all redundant. It would have no effect on the helo.

As for the A-10, an APFSDSDU LRP travels roughly 1 mile per second. That means that if you shoot at an A-10 at a range of 1 mile, the A-10 at 400mph will move 581 feet in the time it takes the sabot to cover the distance.

If you attempted to lead an aircraft by 581 feet through the GPS it would be well out of your FOV.

That's if it's even going 400 mph. For all you know it's going 300 mph, and you'll need to lead it by 300 feet. For that matter, if it is ingressing or egressing, or climbing or diving, you won't even have accurate range information.

A tank has no provision for determining target speed, nor does it have the FOV to compensate for a fast moving target, nor can it accurately determine range on a fast, hard manuevering target.

Further, and MOST imporatantly, a tank usually only has about 20degrees of elevation, which is far short of what would be needed to engage an A-10 closing in a gun employment dive.

It's a TOTAL NO GO.

Admit it Axl, you were never a DAT.

**TopHatter** · 06 Oct 03,, 23:58

Gosh Sniper, you mean I have to have fire control to have a 1 in a million shot of hitting something with a cannon? Naaahhhh

**Praxus** · 07 Oct 03,, 00:05

You pay excellent attention Praxus, because that was exactly what i said earlier.

That was the point:D

**TopHatter** · 07 Oct 03,, 00:14

Teacher's pet Teacher's pet!!!

**Praxus** · 07 Oct 03,, 00:24

LOL

:sniper
:sniper
:sniper
:sniper
:sniper

**Bill** · 07 Oct 03,, 04:15

LOL, seems Axl got tired of this eh?

**TopHatter** · 07 Oct 03,, 04:37

I know I got tired of his "A tank gun is an absolutely fabulous weapon to take down an A-10"

**axl** · 07 Oct 03,, 05:20

maybe you guys should start a more practical point of view. all i said is that main battle tanks are able to track and shoot down helicopters and even slow flying planes as the a-10. i never said at what speed or what range. i know that at a specific speed (dont't ask me a number) the plane will be too fast, no question about it. therefore i also stated before it depends on the situation. helicopters are a major threat for mbts and many armies train the crews to use the main gun against them. just ask any leo2 gunner (there are various countries using this tank), try the leclerc tankers or even the russians with the t-80u/90. they all know it is possible, they all train the crews like that and they are all sure to be able to hit and kill. just because some guys in a forum don't believe it, those countries will not change the tactics.

regards
axl

**Officer of Engineers** · 07 Oct 03,, 06:07

How about asking me?

I know zipperheads claim that they can track aircrafts but the simple fact is that they don't train with the birdbrains. In my entire career, I've been exactly "straffed" by FOUR planes (yes, you can ditch any vehicle no matter what the salesman says). I didn't see the planes coming and they were long gone before I even think of getting my head out of the mud.

I, too, would like to know your unit. Your unit's history will tell me what they've been up to and what you're qualified to speak on and this, you are not. No one is. We certainly don't train against American birdbrains. Why should we? They're after the bad guys, not us. Their tactics ain't devised against us but against the enemy.

If anything, we would train against the FROGFOOTs and the HINDs.

There are NO qualifications to track an Apache nor an A10 and most certainly there are NO exercises for anyone to pass battle evals.

This is ludicrous. Admin, may I suggest locking this thread.

**Bill** · 07 Oct 03,, 06:36

Thanx for your assesment Colonel.

At this point, it would be best to follow your advice, as this has gone beyond pointless.

If it was up to me, this guy would already be banned.

I'll tell you this much, US DATs absolutely do not train to engage aircraft with sabot, at least none that i am familiar with.

I actually once saw a UH-1 'strafe' a diamand formation platoon of M-60A3TTS's in a field problem at Fort Sill in 1988 at REALLY low level(i'm talking 25 feet here, right directly over the formation). Several of the tanks attempted to slew their turrets on the Huey, and none of them appeared to have any more than a very small window of opportunity to engage. I was on a ridge about 600 meters away observing the scene through a Bausch & Lomb 6-24x50 riflescope set to 6x. I had a good view as the infantry platoon just disembarked by the helo's surrounded the tank platoon in broken terrain and wiped them out in less than a minute.

Rolling coffins.