Type 90(Japanese) vs. Type 98(Chinese)

**Gio** · 06 Oct 03, 00:05

Deutsch

**TopHatter** · 06 Oct 03, 00:48

I don't recall that he ever claimed to be an American, though he claims to have military service, so it would be with the Bundeswehr . On the other hand, he totally ignores any questions about his service. It's no wonder that our fellow board members are getting increasingly angry. After all these are no difficult questions and it's only good manners to answer them, or even acknowledge them.
I have to admit, I really doubt his credentials (what ever they are) when he claims that the main gun on a tank is an effective weapon against CAS aircraft, especially an A-10 that is streaking over the battlefield at over 400mph, jinking wildly to avoid rapid-fire AAA guns.

**Jay** · 06 Oct 03, 01:21

um...my bad :dontcare

**TopHatter** · 06 Oct 03, 01:29

Sorry about that, didnt mean to come off contentiously.

**Jay** · 06 Oct 03, 02:05

heh no probs man, for some reason i always thot that since he trained in m1a2's he's claiming to be an american. I read the whole thing and yes he didnt mean it dat way

**Bill** · 06 Oct 03, 02:43

There are so many holes in Axl's last page of retorts, i am convinced he is a fake.

Sabot won't do dick to a helo, first of all. I had a CWO4(Name of Cicuzza, ex DAT TC and attack helo pilot) at military.com do all the math for me. There is an insufficient pressure wave to create a catostrophic failure in a helo's structure, and there is insufficient target density to excite the DU penetrator into pyrophoric ignition.

Second, any non powered projectile be it a tomato or a LRP sabot MUST follow the laws of physics, and more specificly, the laws of ballistics. IOW, Sabot is a ballistic projectile.

Third, the Leo II and Abrams lack any sort of lead computing sight for the engagement of targets moving at the speed of an A-10. The .50BMG TC weapon would give a much better chance of a hit inside 1000m.

Finally, a tank that shuts down will remain visible on FLIR for hours on end.

Praxus, the A-10 does not have a FLIR besides the seeker of the Maverick itself.

Beet feet Axl, you posing dog.

**Praxus** · 06 Oct 03, 02:49

Praxus, the A-10 does not have a FLIR besides the seeker of the Maverick itself.

Can't the A-10 carry an IR pod?

If it doesn't have IR then how can it effectivly operate during the night?

Light Amplification doesn't have the range of IR. It definatly can't see targets at 27km.

**axl** · 06 Oct 03, 06:26

@jay
never said that i trained on the m1a2

@tophatter
the a-10 is not always flying with a constant speed. don't ignore everything what i say.

@sniper
-you wanna tell me that an apfsds round, abl to penetrate more than half a meter of rha is not able to kill a helicopter? what world are you living in? and not all countries use du penetators.

-i know what a ballistic projectile is, where is your point with that? still, slow rounds have a different path than fast ones.

-you wanna tell me that leo2 or abrams are not able to track an a-10 with the main gun, but the .50cal would do? where are you comming from? depending on the speed of the plane the main gun is the weapon of choice.

-what is the point with the tank staying visible for flir if switched off? somebody said something else? and moreover: ever seen a tank thru a thermal imaging sight?

regards
axl

**Bill** · 06 Oct 03, 08:06

"@sniper
-you wanna tell me that an apfsds round, abl to penetrate more than half a meter of rha is not able to kill a helicopter? what world are you living in? and not all countries use du penetators."

That's exactly what i'm telling you.

I USED to make the same argument as you until i was corrected by people that know better than me. Sabot lacks the volumetric disruption to cause a catostrophic failure in a helo. Go over to the armor board at military.com and ask Circuzza if you don't believe me.

Unlike you, his entire service background is verifiable. He was a Platoon commander(M60A3TTS), and an attack helo pilot.

And he answers little questions like when he was in, where he served, and with what unit.

Only fakes are afraid to reveal their unit. I listed mine for you, list yours for me.

Quid pro Quo.

**axl** · 06 Oct 03, 09:20

sorry man, but if a >4kg round hits the helicopter with >1600m/s it will seriously damage it. i don't have to go over to another forum, just because you are not able to explane it to me.

regards
axl

**TopHatter** · 06 Oct 03, 18:02

My god, what is so friggin hard about answering a simple question?
As for the A-10, I will say this: What makes you think that an MBT can track a high-speed aircraft? Hell, even a helicopter? It's not an air-defense vehicle! The aircraft would have to be sitting still, fat dumb and happy just begging the tank to shoot at it. For that matter it would also have to be low enough, else the tank's main gun would not be able to elevate high enough to draw a bead on it.
A tank's main gun being used as an AA weapon is an asinine idea at best, something that you have to be absolutely desperate to do, or have an 8 year old child at the controls of the opposing aircraft.
Axl, let me ask you this, is there some reason you are ignoring the dozen plus times people have asked you what unit you were in?

**Bill** · 06 Oct 03, 18:07

Axl, most of a helicopter is just a hollow aluminum shell.

Sabot kills by spalling. There is nothing to spall on most helos.

It would have to hit the engine or the transmission to do anything.

But hey, you are the expert....(L O L)

**Stinger** · 06 Oct 03, 20:24

Now Snipe correct me if I'm misuderstanding, but wouldn't a Sabot penetrator just act like a single large caliber bullet? funny I used to think the "Golden BB" was a luck shot, not something you could set up a tank to shoot whenever you felt like it.

We need a crack smoking smilie.

**axl** · 06 Oct 03, 20:31

@TopHatter
next time you spot a helicopter on lets say 1.000 or 2.000m, please try to track it with one hand. why shouldn't a mbt be able to do the same? and why is it a problem if i don't say the name of my unit?

@M21Sniper
a helicopter is full of hydraulics and electronics. don't think that it likes a penetration. moreover you have to see the speed and the resulting shockwave.

regards
axl

**Stinger** · 06 Oct 03, 20:34

Originally posted by axl
@TopHatter
next time you spot a helicopter on lets say 1.000 or 2.000m, please try to track it with one hand. why shouldn't a mbt be able to do the same? and why is it a problem if i don't say the name of my unit?

@M21Sniper
a helicopter is full of hydraulics and electronics. don't think that it likes a penetration. moreover you have to see the speed and the resulting shockwave.

regards
axl

Axl... How are you figuring the deflection on your shot?

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