Thread: Ancient and Modern Day Training Standards

Also, look at the marian reforms under Gaius Marius. He radically changed Roman training from part time large group combat to full time year round professionals who also include calisthenics. He did this for strength and endurance training and also added gladiatorial training (hand to hand) to make the Roman soldier able to fight man to man at the same level as Romes enemies and also be able to fight and march longer.

This was important because Rome was undergoing unprecedented growth that required more and more and thus smaller and smaller coloniea (military colonies) to keep the locals in line. Some of these groups included Greeks (Syracuse and Macedonia) that had long histories of personal athletics. Other groups were very hostile to Rome- Etruscans, Celts, Carthaginians, Numidians and Iberians etc who had all been part of the allied force Hannibal used to ravage Italy. Finally, Marius arrived on stage in the midst of a series of servile wars or large scale slave revolts.

Originally Posted by Chogy

Maybe that is the way to do it. Rather than come up with generic fitness requirements for ancient armies that will probably be nothing more than speculation, find feats such as these that are well documented. Since they are grounded in actual combat, it lends a definite sense of real urgency to the feats. "Do you think you can replicate this?" and proceed to describe an incredible feat of movement, of physical fitness.

Best of luck, I think your approach will impress the Marines more than simply "Uncle Sam pays you to be fit and ready..." that sort of thing.

When marching over roads the Roman legionaire was expected ot be able to do 18.4 statute miles a day carrying 60lbs gear day in and day out. Since the legions were not mechanized the march from anywhere to someplace else had to be done at least part way by foot until a port could be reached.

Julius Caesar marched from Cisapline Gual to the English Channel and back again by the time he was done.

The Roman remnants that escaped Crassus's colossal blunder had to retreat out on foot vs Persian cavalry- and they did it and formed the core of the army that beat the Persians the next go round.

Pre-Roman the obvious example is Xenophon's march to the see. You have 10,000 Greeks, mostly hoplites marching cross country.

The Spartans did PT religiously.

Alexanders Armies marched from Asia Minor to Egypt, then back up the Phoenician coast and across Mesopotamia to the Indus valley then back along the Indian Ocean Coast back to Babylon.

Originally Posted by Albany Rifles

You have learned well, Grasshopper!

What is ironic to me is that I used to always tell people that I would take around on a tour of West Point was the joke that Battle Monument was really a tribute to Southern marksmanship. The statue sitting right across the road? You guessed it.

I don't know whether it was coincidence or by intention.

Originally Posted by Shek

...really a tribute to Southern marksmanship.

Aw, shucks. I bet they couldn't hit an elephant at that dis.....

Most ancient training that I've read about seems to center around things like marching with equipment (to practice phalanx manuevers), swimming, running, riding, practicing with weapons, and wrestling.

Young Apache boys were made to run in the mornings. Often uphill and with a mouthful of water (that they had to spit out on top) to force them to breath deeply through their nose.

I think Roman training swords and shields were twice the weight of real ones?

I suspect that middle eastern club exercises must go back a ways.

Originally Posted by Rifleman

I think Roman training swords and shields were twice the weight of real ones?

Yes, so did medieval knights it builds up the right muscles for endurance and speed since your using simulations of the equipment in the right way.

Young Apache boys were made to run in the mornings. Often uphill and with a mouthful of water (that they had to spit out on top) to force them to breath deeply through their nose.

And these were simply boys within the Tribe, not elite soldiers. Could you imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth (and the lawsuits) if something like this was done to teenage boys today?

Maybe if you used Mountain Dew or Red Bull instead of water...

Originally Posted by Chogy

Young Apache boys were made to run in the mornings. Often uphill and with a mouthful of water (that they had to spit out on top) to force them to breath deeply through their nose.

And these were simply boys within the Tribe, not elite soldiers. Could you imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth (and the lawsuits) if something like this was done to teenage boys today? Maybe if you used Mountain Dew or Red Bull instead of water...

Chogy,
It was/is a common practice for students of public speaking. Cicero writes that all Roman young men with aspirations for a public career went to Greece for training in rhetoric - the Greek teachers took their revenge on the Romans by making the boys run up the Acropolis with a mouth full of pebbles. So I think if we convinced parents that it will get their kids into good colleges, you will see they do it quite enthusiastically