PLA's Amphibious Howitzer

**xinhui** · 13 Nov 09,, 21:45

with cargo carrying/laser rounds (top attack, IR guided), accurately might not be an issue.

**Gun Grape** · 14 Nov 09,, 04:15

Originally Posted by xinhui

with cargo carrying/laser rounds (top attack, IR guided), accurately might not be an issue.

Its very much an issue. The "Fan" that the round is fired in to spot the laser reflection is small. They won't be firing Copperheadski from a floating howitzer and having it hit something any time soon.

The Marine Corps tried this back in 1945. Made a few 75mm AmTanks, but the idea that you can fire accurate artillery from a bobbing vehicle is crazy.

If they want to use it in the direct fire/tank support role once it hits shore than not a bad idea. Direct gunfire support in the initial waves, vice having to wait for tanks to come ashore is a good idea. If the enemy is lightly armed.

It doesn't have the protection of a tank, easy to kill it. Better some dismounts with AT-4/SMAW type AT and bunker busting rounds.

Deck space on their amphibs could be better spent. But then again, someone posted pictures of Chinese howitzers on a barge a few years back.

I hope they keep doing such silly stuff. Instead of improving their NGF and air support and figuring out that whole use of the fires triad in support of an amphibious assault stuff.

**xinhui** · 14 Nov 09,, 20:15

Gun Grape

thanks for the informative reply. Given the military balance, PLA's land party is unlikely to enjoy either the NGF or the CAP support.

**xinhui** · 09 Dec 09,, 17:58

from yesterday's CCTV report

**xinhui** · 01 Feb 10,, 06:48

It is official, the designation is PLZ-07B

P = Fire Support
L = Howitzer
Z= Armored.

**Aussiegunner** · 01 Feb 10,, 12:28

I don't know if it is such a bad idea. We are all assuming that they want to use it to fire while floating in the water, but I can see a greater degree of utility from just using it to move guns in to shore more safely than is the case in a landing craft. It has a much lower profile and a shallower draft than than just about any landing craft (save for an ACV WRT draft), so it is going to be less vulnerable to both mines and any remaining fire from the shore. If it does get hit the Chinese just lose one gun and crew, as opposed to multiple guns and crews for a landing craft plus the utility of the craft itself for the entire remainder of the landing and for any follow up resupply missons. I see it as a good way for the Chinese to quickly provide indirect fire support to airborne or airmobile troops operating inland early in the operation, without having to bring their NGS right in close.

In the DFS role even though it is reletively lightly armoured the fact that it will be able to fire accurately once the treads hit the sand with just the turret and a little bit of the top showing would reduce the risk of it getting hit in the first place by a substantial degree. The PLA could reduce that risk even further by putting reactive armour on the turret and if they came in under a smokescreen then it would probably get within the minimum range of most of the ATGW's on your average sized beach by the time it had landed. I'd also suggest that it would be a lot less vulnerable than a troop of tanks coming in on a landing craft until they are safely beached.

**Officer of Engineers** · 01 Feb 10,, 13:34

Capt Steven Miles has written a summary of the Chinese experimentation with floating artillery.

PLA Experimentation with Armed Cargo Ships

**gf0012-aust** · 01 Feb 10,, 13:56

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Capt Steven Miles has written a summary of the Chinese experimentation with floating artillery.

PLA Experimentation with Armed Cargo Ships

am I going batty or is that really a T34/122 on that freighter?

**Inst** · 01 Feb 10,, 14:20

I'm wondering if the amphib SPH would capsize if it fired its gun from the water?

**chanjyj** · 01 Feb 10,, 15:20

Most of the posts I see here seem to indicate the posters believe the guns are meant to be fired from the water?

I highly doubt that is the purpose of the amphibious capability

Correct me if I'm wrong.

IMHO, it is plain stupid to fire an ARTILLERY ROUND from a BOBBING vehicle that is.. not light.

**Officer of Engineers** · 01 Feb 10,, 18:03

Originally Posted by gf0012-aust

am I going batty or is that really a T34/122 on that freighter?

The pic is kind of blurry but if memory serves, it was a Type-59 and Type-96.

Originally Posted by chanjyj

Most of the posts I see here seem to indicate the posters believe the guns are meant to be fired from the water?

I highly doubt that is the purpose of the amphibious capability

Correct me if I'm wrong.

IMHO, it is plain stupid to fire an ARTILLERY ROUND from a BOBBING vehicle that is.. not light.

PLA pictures would suggest that they are doing exactly that - firing from water.

**xinhui** · 01 Feb 10,, 20:51

You been STUFT-ed

Container vessel modification injects vigor into maritime military transportability

(Source: PLA Daily) 2010-01-28
China Military Online English Edition

　　Since early January, the Navigational Affairs Military Representative Office of the Nanjing Military Area Command (MAC) of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) has successfully completed the modification of many container vessels, hence overcoming the difficulties in universality and exchangeability of different ship types, different cargo holds and different parts. As a result, the modified facilities are standardized and newly-built civilian ships are required to reach the new standard to meet military demand. The modified container vessels will inject new vigor into the maritime military transportation. Recently, the research program “Container Vessel Modification and Standard Design” won the Military Scientific and Technological Progress Award.

　　In order to improve the support structure of maritime military transportation, the Navigational Affairs Military Representative Office of the Nanjing MAC adheres to the principle of being applicable both in peacetime and wartime, reliable in technology,economic and easy to be modified, fully explores the transportation potential of container vessels and tries to improve the maritime military transportation capability to the maximum.

　　By Yang Guoping, Li Shengcai

Editor:Ouyang

**Inst** · 02 Feb 10,, 04:42

Sir:

We haven't seen them actually fire a round from the water, and with the high-waterline, would the amphibious artillery capsize from firing its howitzer?

**chanjyj** · 02 Feb 10,, 07:10

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

PLA pictures would suggest that they are doing exactly that - firing from water.

With regards to the tanks and light howitzers on the freighter, yes, but the amphibious SPH?

And damned if the thing doesnt sink if you try and fire a round from it

**~~SMJ~~** · 01 Mar 10,, 00:54

Type 63A Amphibious Tank doesn't have good armor protection, and the turret is positioned near the rear of the vehicle as opposed to centered. This limits the 105mm gun's vertical movement, which is important when there is a bunker entrance that needs to be taken care of, or a dug out, fox hole, trench, and requires a canon to aim downwards a bit. While the armor isn't adequate, it still provides some armor against small arms fire, and such. I wouldn't define it as a tank, but a amphibious gun system, or mobile gun system. It would be possible to aim from the seas, granted depending how rough the seas are. Water acts as a very good shock absorber, so the recoil from the gun shouldn't be a problem in the water when firing. The concept of amphibious platforms is a good one though, and the Chinese applied the concept to a significant degree than most militaries in the world.

The SP howitzer seems to be a improvement over the previous system they had, which was like the Gvozdika that required floating devices to assist the vehicle's buoyancy, and used it's tracks as a propeller in the water. Probably has better swimming capabilities.