+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 16 to 30 of 30

Thread: PLA's Amphibious Howitzer

  1. #16
    Defense Moderator
    Defense Professional
    Lei Feng Protege
    xinhui's Avatar
    Join Date
    17 May 06
    Posts
    7,218
    Country: Guatemala
    with cargo carrying/laser rounds (top attack, IR guided), accurately might not be an issue.
    “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

  2. #17
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 Mar 05
    Location
    Panama City Fl
    Posts
    5,845
    Country: United States
    Quote Originally Posted by xinhui View Post
    with cargo carrying/laser rounds (top attack, IR guided), accurately might not be an issue.
    Its very much an issue. The "Fan" that the round is fired in to spot the laser reflection is small. They won't be firing Copperheadski from a floating howitzer and having it hit something any time soon.


    The Marine Corps tried this back in 1945. Made a few 75mm AmTanks, but the idea that you can fire accurate artillery from a bobbing vehicle is crazy.

    If they want to use it in the direct fire/tank support role once it hits shore than not a bad idea. Direct gunfire support in the initial waves, vice having to wait for tanks to come ashore is a good idea. If the enemy is lightly armed.

    It doesn't have the protection of a tank, easy to kill it. Better some dismounts with AT-4/SMAW type AT and bunker busting rounds.

    Deck space on their amphibs could be better spent. But then again, someone posted pictures of Chinese howitzers on a barge a few years back.

    I hope they keep doing such silly stuff. Instead of improving their NGF and air support and figuring out that whole use of the fires triad in support of an amphibious assault stuff.
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  3. #18
    Defense Moderator
    Defense Professional
    Lei Feng Protege
    xinhui's Avatar
    Join Date
    17 May 06
    Posts
    7,218
    Country: Guatemala
    Gun Grape

    thanks for the informative reply. Given the military balance, PLA's land party is unlikely to enjoy either the NGF or the CAP support.
    “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

  4. #19
    Defense Moderator
    Defense Professional
    Lei Feng Protege
    xinhui's Avatar
    Join Date
    17 May 06
    Posts
    7,218
    Country: Guatemala
    from yesterday's CCTV report
    Attached Images      
    “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

  5. #20
    Defense Moderator
    Defense Professional
    Lei Feng Protege
    xinhui's Avatar
    Join Date
    17 May 06
    Posts
    7,218
    Country: Guatemala
    It is official, the designation is PLZ-07B

    P = Fire Support
    L = Howitzer
    Z= Armored.
    Attached Images  
    “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

  6. #21
    Reformed Kiwi Military Professional
    Join Date
    03 Nov 08
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    694
    Country: Australia

    Gun Grape

    I don't know if it is such a bad idea. We are all assuming that they want to use it to fire while floating in the water, but I can see a greater degree of utility from just using it to move guns in to shore more safely than is the case in a landing craft. It has a much lower profile and a shallower draft than than just about any landing craft (save for an ACV WRT draft), so it is going to be less vulnerable to both mines and any remaining fire from the shore. If it does get hit the Chinese just lose one gun and crew, as opposed to multiple guns and crews for a landing craft plus the utility of the craft itself for the entire remainder of the landing and for any follow up resupply missons. I see it as a good way for the Chinese to quickly provide indirect fire support to airborne or airmobile troops operating inland early in the operation, without having to bring their NGS right in close.

    In the DFS role even though it is reletively lightly armoured the fact that it will be able to fire accurately once the treads hit the sand with just the turret and a little bit of the top showing would reduce the risk of it getting hit in the first place by a substantial degree. The PLA could reduce that risk even further by putting reactive armour on the turret and if they came in under a smokescreen then it would probably get within the minimum range of most of the ATGW's on your average sized beach by the time it had landed. I'd also suggest that it would be a lot less vulnerable than a troop of tanks coming in on a landing craft until they are safely beached.

  7. #22
    Staff Emeritus
    Join Date
    06 Aug 03
    Posts
    21,433
    Country: Canada
    Capt Steven Miles has written a summary of the Chinese experimentation with floating artillery.

    PLA Experimentation with Armed Cargo Ships
    Chimo

  8. #23
    Global Moderator Defense Professional
    Join Date
    30 May 06
    Posts
    997
    Country: Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Capt Steven Miles has written a summary of the Chinese experimentation with floating artillery.

    PLA Experimentation with Armed Cargo Ships
    am I going batty or is that really a T34/122 on that freighter?

  9. #24
    Contributor
    Join Date
    17 Dec 06
    Posts
    618
    I'm wondering if the amphib SPH would capsize if it fired its gun from the water?

  10. #25
    Regular chanjyj's Avatar
    Join Date
    05 May 09
    Location
    A little red dot
    Posts
    37
    Country: Singapore
    Most of the posts I see here seem to indicate the posters believe the guns are meant to be fired from the water?

    I highly doubt that is the purpose of the amphibious capability
    Correct me if I'm wrong.

    IMHO, it is plain stupid to fire an ARTILLERY ROUND from a BOBBING vehicle that is.. not light.

  11. #26
    Staff Emeritus
    Join Date
    06 Aug 03
    Posts
    21,433
    Country: Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by gf0012-aust View Post
    am I going batty or is that really a T34/122 on that freighter?
    The pic is kind of blurry but if memory serves, it was a Type-59 and Type-96.

    Quote Originally Posted by chanjyj View Post
    Most of the posts I see here seem to indicate the posters believe the guns are meant to be fired from the water?

    I highly doubt that is the purpose of the amphibious capability
    Correct me if I'm wrong.

    IMHO, it is plain stupid to fire an ARTILLERY ROUND from a BOBBING vehicle that is.. not light.
    PLA pictures would suggest that they are doing exactly that - firing from water.
    Chimo

  12. #27
    Defense Moderator
    Defense Professional
    Lei Feng Protege
    xinhui's Avatar
    Join Date
    17 May 06
    Posts
    7,218
    Country: Guatemala
    You been STUFT-ed

    Container vessel modification injects vigor into maritime military transportability

    (Source: PLA Daily) 2010-01-28
    China Military Online English Edition

      Since early January, the Navigational Affairs Military Representative Office of the Nanjing Military Area Command (MAC) of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) has successfully completed the modification of many container vessels, hence overcoming the difficulties in universality and exchangeability of different ship types, different cargo holds and different parts. As a result, the modified facilities are standardized and newly-built civilian ships are required to reach the new standard to meet military demand. The modified container vessels will inject new vigor into the maritime military transportation. Recently, the research program “Container Vessel Modification and Standard Design” won the Military Scientific and Technological Progress Award.

      In order to improve the support structure of maritime military transportation, the Navigational Affairs Military Representative Office of the Nanjing MAC adheres to the principle of being applicable both in peacetime and wartime, reliable in technology,economic and easy to be modified, fully explores the transportation potential of container vessels and tries to improve the maritime military transportation capability to the maximum.

      By Yang Guoping, Li Shengcai

    Editor:Ouyang
    “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

  13. #28
    Contributor
    Join Date
    17 Dec 06
    Posts
    618
    Sir:

    We haven't seen them actually fire a round from the water, and with the high-waterline, would the amphibious artillery capsize from firing its howitzer?

  14. #29
    Regular chanjyj's Avatar
    Join Date
    05 May 09
    Location
    A little red dot
    Posts
    37
    Country: Singapore
    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    PLA pictures would suggest that they are doing exactly that - firing from water.

    With regards to the tanks and light howitzers on the freighter, yes, but the amphibious SPH?

    And damned if the thing doesnt sink if you try and fire a round from it

  15. #30
    SMJ
    SMJ is offline
    Banned New Member
    Join Date
    01 Mar 10
    Posts
    19
    Type 63A Amphibious Tank doesn't have good armor protection, and the turret is positioned near the rear of the vehicle as opposed to centered. This limits the 105mm gun's vertical movement, which is important when there is a bunker entrance that needs to be taken care of, or a dug out, fox hole, trench, and requires a canon to aim downwards a bit. While the armor isn't adequate, it still provides some armor against small arms fire, and such. I wouldn't define it as a tank, but a amphibious gun system, or mobile gun system. It would be possible to aim from the seas, granted depending how rough the seas are. Water acts as a very good shock absorber, so the recoil from the gun shouldn't be a problem in the water when firing. The concept of amphibious platforms is a good one though, and the Chinese applied the concept to a significant degree than most militaries in the world.

    The SP howitzer seems to be a improvement over the previous system they had, which was like the Gvozdika that required floating devices to assist the vehicle's buoyancy, and used it's tracks as a propeller in the water. Probably has better swimming capabilities.
    Last edited by SMJ; 01 Mar 10, at 02:14.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Similar Threads

  1. World Navies Listing (updated 3/29/05)
    By rickusn in forum Naval Warfare
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 26 Apr 05,, 20:08
  2. World Navies(Completed)
    By rickusn in forum Naval Warfare
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 03 Apr 05,, 07:27
  3. World Navies
    By rickusn in forum Naval Warfare
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 31 Mar 05,, 23:57
  4. World Navies Edited and Updated
    By rickusn in forum Naval Warfare
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 26 Mar 05,, 03:02
  5. Greatly Revised Rankings
    By rickusn in forum Naval Warfare
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 20 Mar 05,, 11:51

Share this thread with friends:

Share this thread with friends:

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts