Thread: Modern Tank tactics ?

Originally Posted by sourkraut115

The French 6th Armored Division ("Daguet") was on the left flank of the XVIII Airborne Corps, not VII Corps

It was about 4 weeks before 3rd ACR relieved the 187th Infantry (3 Bde/101st) in place in south/central Iraq after the ground war ended in Desert Storm; it wasn't as if we were in contact (other than visual) after approx. 1 March 91, but it did occasionally seem rather lonely up there.

hrmm, I know the Brits were with VII corps and I was sure the French were there as well. My mistake and humble apologies.

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Colonel,

You might be interested in these

The Last Stand Of The Tawakalna
On Point - The United States Army in Operation Iraqi Freedom

thank you

Originally Posted by Stitch

I would have to say the biggest and most effective advances on the battlefield are the C3 advances; the M1 has what's called FBCB2, or Force XXI Battlefield Command Brigade and Below, which is an integrated communications platform that allows the commander of a tank (the M1A2 SEP) "to track friendly forces on the battlefield. It increases a vehicle commander's situational awareness of the battlefield by gathering information graphically instead of collecting reports verbally" (from Wikipedia).

Bear in mind that Blue Force tracking is very important, but it is not immune to spoofing.

Originally Posted by Albany Rifles

I was an Infantryman but i have always been greatful for the wonderful artillery the US Army has had since its inception (see Henry Knox). What would make our ALB doctrine viable was the absolute incredible artillery support we enjoyed.

In the Gulf and again in OIF US Army and Marine artillery was just outstanding. In every case artillery shaped the battelfield for the maneuver forces. The US didn't have to worry about Iraqi artillery because the counter battery was so devestatingly effective.

Okay before thsi becomes a commercial for the FT Sill Chamber of Commerce, my question is how good and how large is the artillery component of the Indian Army? What got me thinking was the discussion of the Brigadier about the canals.

I believe that would be your single greatest shaper of the fight.

I am over whelmed by the replies to my queries most proffesional in content.
The indian arty is a very professional set up , to be honest serious about their job.it takes much of an armour man to ack the fact.in the indian army they come in under the OG ( olive green ) umbrella where the regts/ units who cross the last t are placed as it is said that their blood as turned og.i am sure all armies have such units.
let me go back into history a wee bit- as late as ww2 the brits did not trust the natives with the gun fearing a repeat of 1857 hence the indian arty did not grow the way the infantry/cavalry grew.before the ww2 there were a few mtn gun btys with an odd field bty. the mtn btys with their screw guns glorifed by kipling in his frointier stories.the first arty indian regt came into being during the ww2 mainly as field regts who saw action in burma and north africa. after independence these units were divided between india and pakistan.so our roots remain british with basic training, unit admn etc still steeped in old raj traditions. will warm the cockles of old raj hands if they are still around.after the brits left india the military to military contact has been minimal, though the latest efforts have seen the first indian inf coy trg in uk.
the expansion took place post 1962 where in a large number of medium, feild and light regts were raised and arty support in various ops of war were standerdised to various terrains. i think we are comfortable in the number of fire units but lacking inquality as the ambitious plan to convert into 155mm 42 has lost its momentum. the cb equipment has recieved a filip with the anptq 37s and hopefully some more will come in soon. amn production has been mastered with bi modular amn coming in.the aspects of fireplannig, communication, move, deployment etc ranges from good to excellent. let me say the pak arty can also be graded as good.
the bleeding of arty units for ci ops is nothing new in india. its spread into armr, arty, air defence etc firstly to keep the infantry quiet and blood the personel of these eqpt heavy units. we have a fixed tenure with ci ops units.

I will confess I have come too late in the debate and have not read the whole thread.

Indeed all arms and services contribute to any wars or the CI environment.

For political reasons and because we don't want to appear ruthless, unlike other countries in similar situation, as in Iraq, Afghanistan or the Pakistan response in Baluchistan and elsewhere, we do not use artillery or armour to combat the terrorists. That is possibly one of the reasons why the it does not allow Pakistan to have a high moral ground when discussing how to handle terrorism.

Infantry is never adequate to handle terrorism as has been learned by the US and others (we have a head start). That is why more troops are being earmarked for Afghanistan as also the rationale for Bush's ''surge''.

To offset the lack of adequate infantry we use armour units and arty unit in the infantry role (without their hardware as the infantry without their anti tank and mortars). Manpower in infantry role.

The advantage we accrue is that these arms which has no idea of the problems of the infantry learn it fast and they come out as better tacticians and strategists.

Thus, when they command Infantry Brigades they are no longer popinjays and marionettes and instead sons of the soil!!

Originally Posted by Ray

Indeed all arms and services contribute to any wars or the CI environment.
...
To offset the lack of adequate infantry we use armour units and arty unit in the infantry role (without their hardware as the infantry without their anti tank and mortars). Manpower in infantry role.

The advantage we accrue is that these arms which has no idea of the problems of the infantry learn it fast and they come out as better tacticians and strategists.

Brig Ray, Col TJ:

Out of curiosity, are the troops from other branches formed into their own RR battalions or are they attached as the 5th and 6th rifle coys to the the standard infantry battalions? If later, is it done on a "like-minded" basis, i.e. pair up AC detachments with maybe Guards or Mech Inf RR contributions, or just randomly?

Originally Posted by zraver

hrmm, I know the Brits were with VII corps and I was sure the French were there as well. My mistake and humble apologies.

No need to apologize... the British 1st Armoured Division was in fact with VII Corps (forming the "hinge" of the corps movement on the flank of the Arabs), but the French were further north and west under XVIII Corps.

I am wondering for ye tankers (and anti-tank specialists) out there think about the impact of top-attack ATGMs. what are your experiences with fighting with / against it in NTC? How likely is it for an anti-tank team to evade detection by TI? And if they can, who is supposed to sniff them out?

Originally Posted by sourkraut115

No need to apologize... the British 1st Armoured Division was in fact with VII Corps (forming the "hinge" of the corps movement on the flank of the Arabs), but the French were further north and west under XVIII Corps.

could this hinge be called a pivot of mnvre?confusion among many is this hine/pivot a firm base with mobility?

cactus,
i wish it was the way you say. its random postings to units based on vacancies.so is the case with offrs.

"...could this hinge be called a pivot of mnvre?"

It sure could and functionally was. I don't know enough here because the Brits didn't hold the pivot. Instead, as I understand matters, they were manuevering due east at speed in zone towards the enemy. I'd be interested to learn more about whether they had issues synchronizing their movements with the rest of VII Corps.

Everybody pivoted on the Brits.

As such, the pivot point was sort of a "moving target".) -a fast, heavy, lethal one moving at 30 kmh across the desert.

Things happened fast. IIRC, 1st Cav, after opening the breach for 1ID, raced like hell to get into the fight and never really could.

Originally Posted by S-2

"...could this hinge be called a pivot of mnvre?"

It sure could and functionally was. I don't know enough here because the Brits didn't hold the pivot. Instead, as I understand matters, they were manuevering due east at speed in zone towards the enemy. I'd be interested to learn more about whether they had issues synchronizing their movements with the rest of VII Corps.

Everybody pivoted on the Brits.

As such, the pivot point was sort of a "moving target".) -a fast, heavy, lethal one moving at 30 kmh across the desert.

Things happened fast. IIRC, 1st Cav, after opening the breach for 1ID, raced like hell to get into the fight and never really could.

You should have been aroufn FT Hood after this. The 1st Cav guys would walk around like they were hot stuff...until they saw a 2d Armored Division guy. 1 CD did their little faint up the Wadi Al Batin, 1st Tiger BDE, 2 AD did some real fighting under the control of 1 MEF. Both knew who had been in a real fight...lot of snickering from East FT Hood towards west FT Hood.

Originally Posted by Albany Rifles

You should have been aroufn FT Hood after this. The 1st Cav guys would walk around like they were hot stuff...until they saw a 2d Armored Division guy. 1 CD did their little faint up the Wadi Al Batin, 1st Tiger BDE, 2 AD did some real fighting under the control of 1 MEF. Both knew who had been in a real fight...lot of snickering from East FT Hood towards west FT Hood.

And then there was 2nd Bgd (St. Lo) who still wasn't sure who they were. Were they armor or infantry (5th ID)

Originally Posted by zraver

And then there was 2nd Bgd (St. Lo) who still wasn't sure who they were. Were they armor or infantry (5th ID)

This was 2 AD before it went away and then had 5 ID migrate to FT Hood which then became 2 AD which then became 4 ID.

SCORECARD!!! GET YOUR SCORECARD!!!! CAN TELL ONE DIVISION FROM ANOTHER WITHOUT YOUR SCORECARD!!!!

I was eyeball deep in all of that mess.

I will say 2 AD did have the best nicknames

2 AD HELL ON WHEELS

2AD AVN BDE HELL'S ANGELS

2AD DIVERTY HELL'S FIRES

2 AD DISCOM PILLAR'S OF HELL

2 AD DIV STAFF HELL ON EARTH