Thread: USMC receives new M777 Lightweight Howitzer

Originally Posted by Ironduke

Higher tech, 5,000 pounds lighter, nice. I bet you'd love to have had these when you were in the Corps Gsgt GG.

Actually I had the displeasure of working with the original prototypes of both the VSEL UFH (M-777) and the Royal Ord LTH gun. Way back in 1993-94 while at Ft Sill.

To an instructor, every one of us preferred the Royal Ord LTH to the VSEL gun that ended up being the M777. Ergonomically a better gun. Easier to place in action, run fire missions and displace.

But in the shoot off, the VSEL recoil mech held up better.

Now I will say that my young Marines would have liked to have had a lighter gun back in the day. My days of picking the trails up and manhandling the guns ended with the M-101/M-114s. Except as an instructor.

I know very little about Artillery pieces, so I searched the web for info and found this for you.

YouTube - Future Weapons: The New M777 Howitzer

Merry Christmas and a Happy new year.

Tony

It's interesting to see how the different services go their different ways on different things. We had the M777 over five years ago in the Army. On the other hand, the Marines adopted the MOLLE some five years prior to the Army. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

"We had the M777 over five years ago in the Army..."

I'm not sure that the M777 represents a profound example of your point, especially since it was jointly developed by the Army/Marines. This from Col. John Tanzi, TSM-Cannon and LTC Robert Harper, X.O TSM-Cannon in the Jan. 1, 2006 FA Journal-

"The Marines are fielding the basic M777, which uses conventional optical fire control. A total of 94 M777s will be fielded to the 11th Marines at Camp Pendleton and 29 Palms, California, and the Marine Detachments at the Field Artillery School at Fort Sill, Oklahoma, and the Ordnance School at Aberdeen Proving Ground, Maryland. Fielding will be completed this year.

When the digital fire control system (DFCS) is integrated into the M777, the howitzer will be redesignated the M777A1. It will provide location, directional reference and digital communications for the fire direction center (FDC). It will provide close and deep fire support, counterfire and interdiction fires and be rapidly deployable to any region and operable in most climates.

The first M777A1s will be fielded to 2-11 FA, 25th Infantry Division, Schofield Barracks, Hawaii, in August 2006.

In early 2007, software and hardware upgrades will make the M777A1 Excalibur-capable, redesignating it as the M777A2.

At the same time, the Marines will begin fielding the M777A1 to the 10th Marines at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, and retrofitting their M777s to M777A1s. When the Marines Corps acquires Excalibur projectiles, its M777A1s will be brought up to a common M777A2 configuration.

The Marines will field a total of 356 LW155 howitzers (including the 94 original M777s), completing fielding in 2009. The Army currently is looking to buy at least 252M777A2s, completing fielding in 2010."

I believe that the 11th Marines got ALL the LIPR M777s and began fielding as early as May, 2005 in Twentynine Palms. As the article indicates, 2-11 FA was the first ARMY unit to receive the howitzer. They, however, received the M777A1 version.

I looked and looked but couldn't see any U.S. Army F.A. battalion using the M777 as the IOC lead back in 2002. I distinctly remember ArtyEngineer's excitement at the Canadian deployment of the M777 to A-stan in the spring of 2006. He was geeked!

Originally Posted by Shek

It's interesting to see how the different services go their different ways on different things. We had the M777 over five years ago in the Army. On the other hand, the Marines adopted the MOLLE some five years prior to the Army. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

This is one of the last units to get the M777. All of the stumps, Lejeune and most of Pendleton already have them. Okinawa and Hawaii are on the bottom of the pecking order

Now want to talk about long lad time between services adopting the others gear. A few examples. The M-16A2.

In 1984 trucks pulled into Camp Lejeune and all the armories switched out their A1s for A2s within 1 week. In 1991 when I reported to Fort Sill, the only unit that had M16a2s was the Marine Detachment. This after Desert Storm.

In 1983 Marine Artillery started fielding the Gun Display Unit for howitzer crews. A MMT came from Bragg to do what they thought was refresher training. When we told them that it was the first time we had seen the GDUs and were pretty much clueless. They couldn't believe it. Army artillery units used them towards the end of the vietnam war.

Hey we were still using FADAC

S-2,
Snap! I guess we were towing the M198s and hadn't gotten the M777s yet. Too many days looking at the equipment tables and not enough looking at what the gun bunnies actually had! Wish I could have blamed it on early morning eggnog :P

Gun Grape,

"Army artillery units used them towards the end of the vietnam war."

Smoke up your butt, G.G. The GDU communicated digitally with BCS. No digital comms. No LCD read-outs. That stuff didn't exist. Sure as hell not in a doggie arty battalion in Nam.

BTW, I shot an ARTEP with FADAC in 1984 at Ft. Chaffee.

Originally Posted by S-2

Gun Grape,

"Army artillery units used them towards the end of the vietnam war."

Smoke up your butt, G.G. The GDU communicated digitally with BCS. No digital comms. No LCD read-outs. That stuff didn't exist. Sure as hell not in a doggie arty battalion in Nam.

Damn Doggies

GG and S2

So what is the maximum ranges for the M777 firing the following types of ammunition?

Common Shell
Spherical Case
Cannister




I remember in the mid to late 1980s the USMC and the US Army seemed to be bounciong back an dforth as to who got which gear soonest.

M1 to Army in early 1980s; USMC post Desert Storm

We got the M16A2 in 1988 at the 24 ID

Go to NTC in 1986 and offlaod trains at Yermo MCLD...they had HEMTTs all over the palce and we were just getting them. 2 years later we had PLS out the wazzoo and the Marines were drooling over those.

It was all dependent on mission and priorities. The US Army in the 1980s was abotu fielding the Big 5 (M1; M2/M3; MLRS; UH-60; AH-64). USMC was about increasing their flexibility and agility...and that included bringing the F-18 and MV-22 on line.

I think both did just fine in their priorities.

And I KNOW USMC gunners are glad they don't have to try to pull an M198 over the shore with a 5-ton...or a 7 ton!!!

Perhaps a dumb question, but can howitzers (both self-propelled and towed) serve as direct fire units?

"...can howitzers (both self-propelled and towed) serve as direct fire units?"

It's fun.)

"So what is the maximum ranges for the M777 firing the following types of ammunition?

Common Shell
Spherical Case
Cannister"

Not quite as far as our round-shot, depending upon wobble as it leaves the tube.

S-2,

How suited are howitzers for direct fire? How accurate would it be?

I see no AT round is included in the ammo package. I assume that the direct fire accuracy is too low.

I remember our conversation about the opposite, direct fire weapons in indirect fire role, a time ago.

at the end of ww2 russians fired 203mm howitzers, point blank, on berlin streets, i bet that was devastating