China's claims new MBT "among the most advanced in the world"

**~~Zhang Fei~~** · 31 Jul 07,, 06:15

Does anyone know whether China will export this tank?

China''s third-generation main battle tank is among the most advanced in the world, Yang Haifeng, an armored regiment commander in the Beijing Military Area Command, has claimed.

The China-made tank represents a significant improvement over older generations in terms of its ammunition, fire control, defense, telecommunication and rapid-attack capabilities, said Yang, speaking at an event at which his regiment showed the tank to a group of Chinese reporters for the first time, ahead of the 80th founding anniversary of Chinese People''s Liberation Army (PLA).

But he did not disclose the tank type or how many such tanks are currently in service.

His regiment is the only one in the PLA where all platoons are armed with the tank, which was unveiled at the National Day parade in Beijing in 1999 and entered service in 2001.

"The tank, equipped with thermal imaging and night vision systems, has a strong target-tracking capability, which ensures a 90-percent first hit probability at a long range even when the tank is moving," said Yang.

The combat ability of the tank is greatly enhanced by an electro-optical countermeasures suite, which includes a device using high-power laser to attack the enemy weapon''s optics and damage the eyesight of the enemy gunner, said Yang.

**zraver** · 31 Jul 07,, 07:39

China has already deleivered a pre-production ZTZ-99 to Pakistan for consideration as the Al Khalid II.

The tank itself is a bit of a let down. It is underpowered, uses older FLIR and electronics technology compared to truly modern tanks, and the dubious claimed ammuntion performance is achieved via very short barrel life via wear.

In truth how China expects people to believe a 560mm mid-leangth penetrator can achive 850mm plus penetration vs modern armor types is beyhond me.

Then there are the tanks other problems, it still has exposed ammuntion storage, a weak 2A46 autoloader stolen from a T-72 trialed by the PRC in the early 90's, 3 man crew in a cramped conditiosn with the resultign drain on peak perforamance. It also still uses an obsolete suspencion system.

It's armor package has several flaws- shot gaps in the frontal cermaics and a reliance on steel and ERA exclsuvely from the sides even the front sides. With an exposed hull making flank shots by even light man portable AT weapons a threat.

The China fanboys love this tank but thats just jingoistic chest beating. It's not even the best tank in Asia, let alone a deserving of a world ranking. In Asia the M1A1, RoK K1A1, RoK SK2, Arjun, Type-90, T-90S, and T-80UM( South Korean) are all superior.

**~~Feanor~~** · 31 Jul 07,, 08:31

T-80UM South Korean? The T-80UM is a Russian design. Other variations of it include T-80UM1 Bars and T-80UM2 Black Eagle.
Main Battle Tank - T-80/T80U/T80UM/T-80UM1/T-80UM2

What's the actual designation of the tank? Type-98? Because thats what it sounds like you're referring to.

www.China-Defense.com

**zraver** · 31 Jul 07,, 08:44

Russia sent South Korea quite a few T-80UM to pay off debt. It is generally assumed they were then upgraded with better electronics, thermal vision etc.

**~~s002wjh~~** · 31 Jul 07,, 14:28

T99 has about 1500hp, i don't think thats under power. ZTZ99 (Type 99) Main Battle Tank - SinoDefence.com

**zraver** · 31 Jul 07,, 15:59

Originally Posted by s002wjh

T99 has about 1500hp, i don't think thats under power. ZTZ99 (Type 99) Main Battle Tank - SinoDefence.com

The tank is not being issued to units in the south, those units are getting the much less capable T-96. The Chinese claim the ground is to soft for the 54ton ZTZ-99. But heavy tanks have proven over and over that soft ground is not a problem if you solve the power to weight ratio/ground pressure issue. China's reluctance to use it south means one of those issues hasn't bene solved. The very simialr but 10 lighter T-72MV/T-90 has a ground pressure of .9kg/cm^2 and sucessfully operates on soft sand so what gives?

**lazybastard** · 01 Aug 07,, 01:30

Originally Posted by zraver

The tank is not being issued to units in the south, those units are getting the much less capable T-96. The Chinese claim the ground is to soft for the 54ton ZTZ-99. But heavy tanks have proven over and over that soft ground is not a problem if you solve the power to weight ratio/ground pressure issue. China's reluctance to use it south means one of those issues hasn't bene solved. The very simialr but 10 lighter T-72MV/T-90 has a ground pressure of .9kg/cm^2 and sucessfully operates on soft sand so what gives?

Or it could be that they just don't want to come out and say that, frankly, there's not enough of the tanks for everyone, and that Beijing and Shengyang MRs will get first dibs.

**gunnut** · 01 Aug 07,, 01:51

Originally Posted by zraver

Russia sent South Korea quite a few T-80UM to pay off debt. It is generally assumed they were then upgraded with better electronics, thermal vision etc.

I wonder how many of those are over here in the states.

**zraver** · 01 Aug 07,, 04:17

Originally Posted by lazybastard

Or it could be that they just don't want to come out and say that, frankly, there's not enough of the tanks for everyone, and that Beijing and Shengyang MRs will get first dibs.

But then why co-produce the inferior Type 96 for the south? With 1 trillion in cash reserves, at least 2 tank capable factories and an entire armored corps in need of new technology why co-produce a subpar tank?

**lazybastard** · 01 Aug 07,, 04:38

Originally Posted by zraver

But then why co-produce the inferior Type 96 for the south? With 1 trillion in cash reserves, at least 2 tank capable factories and an entire armored corps in need of new technology why co-produce a subpar tank?

Why did Russia build both the T-80 and T-72/90 families at the same time?

**zraver** · 01 Aug 07,, 05:00

Originally Posted by lazybastard

Why did Russia build both the T-80 and T-72/90 families at the same time?

At one time in 1975 due to politcal patronage the USSR was building the T-55, T-62, T-64, and T-72 at the same time, but I digress.

T-64 was intended for Guards units and was the most advanced tank in the world at the time with the possible excpetion of the Chieftan. The T-72 had similar capabilites but was more suitable to export. The T-80 is really a modernized T-64 and the T-90 is really a modernized T-72.

The PLA and PRC do not face the same type of problems that led the USSR to building so many tank designs at the same time.

**~~Feanor~~** · 01 Aug 07,, 06:55

The T-72 and T-80 are intended for different kinds of tank units and tank roles. Basically the T-80 is the modern day heavy tank of the Russian army, where as the T-72 is the medium tank. T-80 is a more elite tank, where as the T-72 is more of a massive simple and reliable tank.

**~~badguy2000~~** · 01 Aug 07,, 07:21

Originally Posted by zraver

China has already deleivered a pre-production ZTZ-99 to Pakistan for consideration as the Al Khalid II.

The tank itself is a bit of a let down. It is underpowered, uses older FLIR and electronics technology compared to truly modern tanks, and the dubious claimed ammuntion performance is achieved via very short barrel life via wear.

In truth how China expects people to believe a 560mm mid-leangth penetrator can achive 850mm plus penetration vs modern armor types is beyhond me.

Then there are the tanks other problems, it still has exposed ammuntion storage, a weak 2A46 autoloader stolen from a T-72 trialed by the PRC in the early 90's, 3 man crew in a cramped conditiosn with the resultign drain on peak perforamance. It also still uses an obsolete suspencion system.

It's armor package has several flaws- shot gaps in the frontal cermaics and a reliance on steel and ERA exclsuvely from the sides even the front sides. With an exposed hull making flank shots by even light man portable AT weapons a threat.

The China fanboys love this tank but thats just jingoistic chest beating. It's not even the best tank in Asia, let alone a deserving of a world ranking. In Asia the M1A1, RoK K1A1, RoK SK2, Arjun, Type-90, T-90S, and T-80UM( South Korean) are all superior.

Al Khalid II. is not based on T99,but on the T96 or MBT2000 so called.

Both T96 and MBT2000 are the variation of T88. another code of T96 is T88C.

T99 won't be exported.

T96 as well as T99 is just like F16 as well as F15.

T99 is so expensive that T99s are deployed in only elite units.

**~~badguy2000~~** · 01 Aug 07,, 07:25

Originally Posted by zraver

The tank is not being issued to units in the south, those units are getting the much less capable T-96. The Chinese claim the ground is to soft for the 54ton ZTZ-99. But heavy tanks have proven over and over that soft ground is not a problem if you solve the power to weight ratio/ground pressure issue. China's reluctance to use it south means one of those issues hasn't bene solved. The very simialr but 10 lighter T-72MV/T-90 has a ground pressure of .9kg/cm^2 and sucessfully operates on soft sand so what gives?

T96 is also not used in South China.

**~~badguy2000~~** · 01 Aug 07,, 07:29

Originally Posted by zraver

But then why co-produce the inferior Type 96 for the south? With 1 trillion in cash reserves, at least 2 tank capable factories and an entire armored corps in need of new technology why co-produce a subpar tank?

T96/T99 are both deployed in north China.

light tyreded armor vehicles are deployed in South China.

Buddy, obviously you have not been to South China .
any heavy vehicle here are just sitting ducks outsides highways.