depends on the commander i would say. my prefered one was always apfsds. everything that would be too light would get some with the coax or a second hit with a heat. but you can't risk to face a mbt and have a heat loaded.
regards
axl
www.kampfpanzer.de
Maybe not, but if you manage to shoot first it's not like the opposing tank is gonna shrug it off like nothing even if it doesn't penetrate. And you rarely meet another tank straight on head-to-head. Surely there's a risk, but so is in running into a bunch of grunts with sabot loaded. Coax is good in keeping their heads down but if they have some cover you need a bigger punch. Seven seconds can be a long time to wait that the HE-F gets loaded.Originally Posted by axl
there is no he-f in the leo2, we have just the heat one. and this round is not that good in kiking infantry asses.
right...
any source? or has this been determined by our friendly expert seeker?
Yes I wondered about that. I would assume speed is only needed if the other threat is a tank...anything else they can survive or have the time to reload? Would you remove the APFSDS if the 'new threat' appeared to be infantry?
BTW whats with this 'Bison24' guy,whats his problem?
you never remove a round from the gun, even if it would be possible. for infantry you have the coax, but i would even fire the apfsds if necessary. with the 125mm gun it's pretty bad to remove something from the gun as it's also in two pieces.
what this guys problem is? i have no idea. i would say he likes to be always right with everything or something. he reads stuff, believes it and would eat his own balls before he starts thinking about all the bullshit. but who cares.
regards
axl
www.kampfpanzer.de
Yes, removing the actual round is impossible with 125mm, it's just stuck so tight in there. Propellant charge is easier though, you just open the breech lock and it drops out.
Last edited by OddBall; 22 Aug 04, at 20:08.
Can all tanks drive around with a main round in the breach with out any risk of combustable cartrige breaking?
From a US Army stand point we always battle carry sabot apfsds-w. Reason being is for target designation purposes. You want to be ready to engage the most dangerous target first. Guys let me explain something to you using my twelve years of experience with the M-1 class of tanks. You can get 3 rounds off in 10 sec and 2 in 7 secs. When you scan in low mag. 9 times out of ten you are going to acquire several targets. The tank commander gives the fire command on which target to engage first, you engage the target and immediately goto the next target lase and blaze and move on from there and this process happens in seconds. Usually the gunner is waiting for the loader very seldom will you have a situation where the gunner isn't ready to fire once the gun is loaded. I am not trying to start an argument I am just giving you hard facts on something that I have done for over a decade. Don't get me wrong there are somethings that will slow a gunner down and I will cover two of them with you. The first one is target obscuration sometimes when you fire from a stationary position and its and hot and dusty you obtics wash out so it usually takes 1-3 seconds for the dust to clear. The next reason is flashing 0000's this mean that you can't get a range. The next reason involves the range finder, it can slow you down if you lase to fast. Lasers have a rate of fire also like weapons and you can burn them out. But trust me you can fire 2 rounds in the 7 second time frame using the main sight.
There is one thing that I need to clear up. During gunnery there are times that we battle carry HEAT reason being is because you have certain engagements that only involve engaging PC's and troops, but in actual combat you are issued and extra round and that round is a sabot which is battle carried in the gun. I can only speak from a US Army stand point.
@seeker
the risk that the round brakes is low, but possible. there where heavy probs when they fielded the 120mm gun and the yanks prefered to wait some more years before they fielded it. i have seen charges brake when i tried to unload them. practically it doesn't matter, just fire it off.
@riclcam
the abrams has no device to prevent the laser from overheating...other tanks have it. sure you can have engagement times from somewhat lower than 5s. but that is under ideal conditions. how can the tc give the command which target to engage first? most abrams versions don't have a sight for the commander and he relies on the picture the gunner delivers.
regards
axl
www.kampfpanzer.de
AXL This is how its done. You scan the wide field of view and you acquire you multiple targets that way. Or sometimes the driver, loader or TC will see a vehicle first because the gunner is looking in a different direction. Let's say you see three vehicles the tc would say "tanks left tank" the gunner would engage the left tank. Next command would be "center tank", followed by "right tank". After engage the last vehicle you would scan back to the left and check your work. I'm not here to play this "my stuff is better than yours" or to try and prove someone wrong I am just here to inform people on what I know for a FACT (because I have done it for all of my adult life) not some trumped story I heard about.
visual target identification by the loader or the driver? are you doing close combat with the crew hanging outside of the hatches?
did i say something about whatever is better than others in my last post? just remember how happy our commander's were to play around with the .50cal, coz without a sight they had nothing really to do.
regards
axl
Visual target identification by driver isn't really unheard of. This happened a couple times with my crew and I would imagine that in Leo 2 with only x12 mag in day sight that would happen as well. But maybe with the TC having his own sight this doesn't happen too often.
About the Abrams LRF, I believe the older ones which you could burn are replaced with new ones that you can't burn as the tank goes through (forgot the exact word) some kind of maintenance cycle? They have been doing this quite a while now, so are there any M1's left with old LRF anymore?
you have different combat ranges. in the simulator i have seen that as well. but it never happened "out in the field".
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