China vs India

**Archer** · 02 Jun 06,, 00:31

Originally Posted by tphuang

do you have any idea what the range of J-10 is? It's longer than flankers. Think about it. It's less than twice the size, but holds more than half the fuel of a flanker.

They interviewed the developer of JF-17. He said that JF-17 has a combat radius of 1800 km and the Chinese news reported JF-17 has a range of 3500 KM. J-10 has to be doing better than that.

Tphuang, JF-17 with a combat radius of 1800 Km with how many pylons occupied? Even that, ferry range, seems untenable.

A Su-30 series a/c has an unrefuelled range of 3 K Km. Highly doubtful that a J-10 can top that. And how much fuel exactly does the J-10 hold?

**cooldw57** · 02 Jun 06,, 01:45

Originally Posted by lemontree

In 1959, 80,000 Tibetan refugees came to India - so does that mean that they majority of them were nobels?

Come on get real.

Any rumors could cause things like this, how does this deny the fact those slaves were treated like **** before 1955 by their Noble owners?

Originally Posted by lemontree

Now this is ignorance at its best, FYI my battalion and that of Brig. Ray sir, is composted of troops belonging to the so called low castes. My regiment is a pure class composition unit, with 4 battle honours and 350+ gallantry awards.

So much for the credibility of your source of info.

I suggest you to read more about Sino-India War on how PLA was able to have their logistic support through the local Tibetan civilians. And that was in 1960s. Nowadays if you ever been to Tibet you would know the whole "Han-Tibetan hatred" fuss were all created by Dali Lama and Indian government

And dont even bother to deny how your caste system isnt a problem in your own country. It's a much worst system despite how you call yourself "democracy".

**cooldw57** · 02 Jun 06,, 01:47

[QUOTE=lemontree]

Originally Posted by troung

Uprising, armed clashes by locals, or cross border raids from expats? 40 years ago maybe a massive uprising but today?
Yes today too, the threat and ability exists. Please don't ask why, as I cannot elaborate.

lol and dont ask me why isnt' a lower caste vs higher caste threat exist in India today, as I cannot elaborate either

**cooldw57** · 02 Jun 06,, 01:50

Originally Posted by dabrownguy

Tanks fighting on mountains? Those gotta be some good tanks.

Fun and games aside I think you forgot about the quality of the equipments and the fact that even a Chinese tank uses a German engine. Or unless they really did begin indengenious production of 1500 hp engine.
Come on get real man. You gotta read the thread before you start posting.

and you are telling me in a war time scenario where none gets support from outside, India's domestic production could last longer than China? Get real

**cooldw57** · 02 Jun 06,, 01:53

Originally Posted by Jay

Actually, it really does not matter. The question is can PLAN choke Indian SLOC's and invade its EEZ?? And the answer is a resounding NO.

you might want to look into PLAN 's battle plan. It is constructed with a clear goal in mind: destroy the enemy CVBG. Might have some trouble still to sank Kitty Hawk, but wouldnt be much a problem for India's medium CV

**cooldw57** · 02 Jun 06,, 02:02

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

You are using a situation, the 1962 War, that is no longer valid.

I happen to agree with you mostly, 1979 PLA did crap against Vietnam. But there's something else worth look into. Vietnam army was a much more capable army compare to 1962 India (not even close), it adopted Chinese and Sovient style infantry tactics. It fought the French, the Americans for over couple decades. In 1979 that was probably also the time when Vietcongs were the meanest and most capable.

**cooldw57** · 02 Jun 06,, 02:08

Originally Posted by dabrownguy

What the hell? PLAAF would send a limited ranged fighter? Even the Flankers will barely have enough fuel for a round trip from Chengdu to Tibet. You think the J-10 can, even with out a inflight refueling probe?

my brown friend, what makes you think PLA would fly a J-10 to Tibet?

**Jay** · 02 Jun 06,, 02:11

Originally Posted by cooldw57

you might want to look into PLAN 's battle plan. It is constructed with a clear goal in mind: destroy the enemy CVBG. Might have some trouble still to sank Kitty Hawk, but wouldnt be much a problem for India's medium CV

WTH?? Tell us how will PLAN hit Indian carrier(s)? From space?? We have been thro this a lot of times, PLAN does not have the ability to track Indian Ships in real time in IOR. Anything that PLAN can deploy in IOC would be countered with similar capable ships from IN.

And can you post your sources on PLAN battle plan? Ill be interested to read it.

**Jay** · 02 Jun 06,, 02:13

Originally Posted by cooldw57

Vietnam army was a much more capable army compare to 1962 India (not even close), it adopted Chinese and Sovient style infantry tactics.

You forgot one important part, the terrain. IA was poorly equipped in those days and ofcourse the political will. Both have changed after 1962 by leaps and bounds.

**cooldw57** · 02 Jun 06,, 02:17

Originally Posted by Jay

WTH?? Tell us how will PLAN hit Indian carrier(s)? From space?? We have been thro this a lot of times, PLAN does not have the ability to track Indian Ships in real time in IOR. Anything that PLAN can deploy in IOC would be countered with similar capable ships from IN.

And can you post your sources on PLAN battle plan? Ill be interested to read it.

lol you seems to be curious and always ask questions. Last time you want info on J-10 vs F/A-18 comparison I gladly supplied you one but you never replied ：-）

Here, my curious Indian friend, just to prove my point:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=28271

PLAN does not WANT carriers, since its primary target is us Americans. They know a carrier does them no good and their entire navy nowadays is focused on sinking US Carriers. So tell me Jay, with a navy speicialized on operation against USN 7th fleet, how is India navy able to use its carrier advantage against the Chinese?

**Officer of Engineers** · 02 Jun 06,, 02:20

Originally Posted by cooldw57

lol you seems to be curious and always ask questions. Last time you want info on J-10 vs F/A-18 comparison I gladly supplied you one but you never replied ：-）

Here, my curious Indian friend, just to prove my point:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=28271

PLAN does not WANT carriers, since its primary target is us Americans. They know a carrier does them no good and their entire navy nowadays is focused on sinking US Carriers. So tell me Jay, with a navy speicialized on operation against USN 7th fleet, how is India navy able to use its carrier advantage against the Chinese?

Rick Fisher is a fantastic researcher and you should use him for the raw facts but his conclusions and projections might as well be on Mars.

**cooldw57** · 02 Jun 06,, 02:49

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Rick Fisher is a fantastic researcher and you should use him for the raw facts but his conclusions and projections might as well be on Mars.

lol good to know, thanks

He's a USN guy, and I'm a NAVAIR engineer, I'm sure we'll find something to talk about :-)

**Jay** · 02 Jun 06,, 02:52

Originally Posted by cooldw57

lol you seems to be curious and always ask questions. Last time you want info on J-10 vs F/A-18 comparison I gladly supplied you one but you never replied ：-）

I believe some one else answered it before me.

PLAN does not WANT carriers, since its primary target is us Americans. They know a carrier does them no good and their entire navy nowadays is focused on sinking US Carriers. So tell me Jay, with a navy speicialized on operation against USN 7th fleet, how is India navy able to use its carrier advantage against the Chinese?

It does not matter what they WANT and INTEND to do, its the matter of what DO they have to do the job. From the info gleaned from your report,

"China's anti-carrier forces include new Russian-made Su-30 fighter bombers, Russian Kilo-class submarines and new anti-ship cruise missiles, like the C-801," said Geostrategy. Also, Beijing's generals have written that land-based ballistic missiles also could be used to target aircraft carrier groups.

With any of these platforms can you find a CVBG?? When a news article says that they are going to use BM's on a CVBG in highseas, we have to search for that sack of seasalt.

Remember, the ships in the other side will not just sit and wait for PLAN to find them, you know IN also has expertise in ASW and they do have Ashms.

**cooldw57** · 02 Jun 06,, 03:03

Originally Posted by Jay

With any of these platforms can you find a CVBG?? When a news article says that they are going to use BM's on a CVBG in highseas, we have to search for that sack of seasalt.

Can you "find" a CVBG? what kind of question is that? CVBG's mutil-layer defense is amazing, no one probably not even the Russians have the ability to penetrate it. But it doesnt take much of thinking to conclude CVBG is an easy to find target. Fundamental Radar 101: Detection range is inverse proportional to target's RCS, go figure

**Officer of Engineers** · 02 Jun 06,, 03:07

Oh come on, the idea of using a SCUD no matter how accurate on a moving target is notorious bad. We haven't been able to do it on a tank column moving in a straight line. On a carrier that can zig zag, you're not going to be able to land a BM anywhere near a carrier.