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Old 04-23-2005, 14:26 PM   #16 (permalink)
FlyingCaddy
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James Buchanan, he writhed his hands as the union disintigrated, unlike an earlier nominee for worse president Andrew Jackson who had the balls to send the army and navy to South Carolina when they threatened sucession in 1833.
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Old 04-23-2005, 16:53 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingCaddy
Andrew Jackson who had the balls to send the army and navy to South Carolina when they threatened sucession in 1833.

if i recall correctly South Carolina decided to not break from the Union, because they realized that their boasts meant nothing and that by joining the South they would only worsten their economy, not because Jackson was stupid enough to send the army and navy.
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Old 04-24-2005, 01:57 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by NRA-Chuck
Worse Presidents:

1) LBJ --- Failure in Vietnam & starting the welfare programs ruined this country.
2) Jimmy Carter --- A very nice man, but didn't have the balls to run the show.
3) Abe Lincoln --- Yes, honest Abe. The dipshit got alot of people killed over politics. If the South didn't want to be part of the Union, let them leave! A Union should be of the partners choice, not a war to keep someone in the Union. I'll never understand the US Civil War, it accomplished nothing. Abe should have let the South go. Not only that, the battle plan was a diaster, all those loser Northern Generals who Abe couldn't manage.
4) Bill Clinton --- Did nothing. He just happened to be President during the Tech Bubble, was never challenged with real decision and a real moral failure.
Seeing you post Abe Lincoln in the part of the list has revealed for what you are: A moron of the highest order.

Abe Lincoln was the greatest president, barely equal to George Washington. Abe Lincoln was a giant who walked on earth. One of the greatest human figures in the history of mankind and you call him one of the worst presidents? You are truly a moron.
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Old 04-24-2005, 09:41 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Blademaster
Seeing you post Abe Lincoln in the part of the list has revealed for what you are: A moron of the highest order.

Abe Lincoln was the greatest president, barely equal to George Washington. Abe Lincoln was a giant who walked on earth. One of the greatest human figures in the history of mankind and you call him one of the worst presidents? You are truly a moron.

I agree with you on the Lincoln part, but i think that Washington is given too much credit. You insinuate that he was a very good president, but you are basing these ideas on the fact that Washignton was a hero of the Revolutionary War, and not on his Presidential career. His character of hero in the war overshadows his minute decisions and agreements as president of the US. People give him so much credit just because he was a general, but that has nothing to do with his later career as President (except that that is why the people chose him), or because he was the first President, which once again has nothing to do with his Presidential life (except that he was lucky, and the people only loved him because he was a General in the war).

Washington was a great man, but all his great deeds are form the revolutionary war. As the President he was ordinary. His founding-father status is what drives people to think that he was a magnificent and perfect President.
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Old 04-24-2005, 11:03 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Oh Mr. Locke, you disappoint me by your views of President Washington. And you are a professor?

Washington’s contribution to American victory was enormous, and analysis of his leadership reveals much about the nature of the military and political conflict. As a conservative, he was determined to show that American officers could be every bit as civilized and genteel as their European counterparts. He convinced many Americans of the need for a stronger government. Washington and other Virginia nationalists were instrumental in bringing about the Constitutional Convention of 1787 to promote that end.

Elected president in 1788 and AGAIN in 1792, his stiff dignity and sense of propriety postponed the emergence of the fierce partisanship that would characterize the administrations of his three successors—John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and James Madison.

Washington made several decisions of far-reaching importance:

During Washington's 2nd Administration, the outbreak of war between revolutionary France and a coalition led by Britain, Prussia, and Austria in 1793 jeopardized American foreign policy and crippled Jefferson’s rival foreign policy design (Jefferson was PRO-FRANCE ya know).

Washington insisted, over Jefferson’s reservations, that the U.S. denounce Genêt and remain neutral in the war between France and Britain. Washington’s anti-French leanings, coupled with the aggressive attitude of the new regime in France toward the U.S., thus served to bring about the triumph of Hamilton’s pro-British foreign policy—formalized by Jay’s Treaty of 1795, WHICH SETTLED OUTSTANDING AMERICAN DIFFERENCES WITH BRITAIN.

Shortly after the president’s death, an Episcopal clergyman, Mason Locke Weems, wrote a fanciful life of Washington for children, stressing the great man’s honesty, piety, hard work, patriotism, and wisdom. Washington has long served as a symbol of American identity along with the flag, the Constitution, and the Fourth of July.

As later historians have examined closely the ideas of the Founding Fathers and the nature of warfare in the Revolution, they have come to the conclusion that Washington’s specific contributions to the new nation were, if anything, somewhat underestimated by earlier scholarship.

George Washington had an important role in shaping America as it stands today. George Washington was much more than ordinary.
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Old 04-24-2005, 13:00 PM   #21 (permalink)
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1. LBJ-Horrible politics, little correct moral, unwise decisions.
2. Carter-Believed he could actually end the Mid-East crisis, and screwed everything-up.
3. Clinton-Did absolutely NOTHING, half-dissolved the military, and was credited with improving the economy.
4. Nixon-Was just plain bad for so many reasons, it scares me.
5. FDR-prolonged the great depression IMO, but I must say after the great depression, he did a half-way decent job leading the country.
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Old 04-24-2005, 14:33 PM   #22 (permalink)
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1. Jimmy Carter. Could have been a great president in a perfect world. Unfortunately he came to the presidency in an imperfect world and he didn't have a clue how to cope with that.

2. Woodrow Wilson. Thought he could bring us peace. Unfortunatly he and his buddies at versailles ended up laying the base for an even bigger war and ethnic clensings around the world. He also gave us the blue print for an incompetent world organisation.

3. Andrew Johnson. Congress had to try to impeach him in order to get anything done. Took back all the reforms the civil war generals had done to help the freed slaves.

4. Ulysses S. Grant. Made a great general, but a bad politician. You're only as good as the people around you and Grant had the most corrupt and incompetent cabinet you'll see outside the parliamentary system.
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Old 04-24-2005, 15:01 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BenRoethig
4. Ulysses S. Grant. Made a great general, but a bad politician. You're only as good as the people around you and Grant had the most corrupt and incompetent cabinet you'll see outside the parliamentary system.
If you call someone who cost the North hundreds of thousands of lives in a horrific war of atrition a great general then sure. But personally I would consider one who finishes it fast with little casulties and with positive conditions a great general.
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Old 04-24-2005, 15:11 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Blademaster
Seeing you post Abe Lincoln in the part of the list has revealed for what you are: A moron of the highest order.

Abe Lincoln was the greatest president, barely equal to George Washington. Abe Lincoln was a giant who walked on earth. One of the greatest human figures in the history of mankind and you call him one of the worst presidents? You are truly a moron.
I guess I must be a moron of the higherst order as well then. Much of what has been attributed to Lincoln is myth. There were even times Lincoln went directly against the US Constitution and took on tyranical power. He certainly wasn't the worst president, but nothing like you describe either...
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Old 04-24-2005, 15:19 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig
4. Ulysses S. Grant.
Good or bad, the thing you have to remember about Grant is that he was the only northerner with any credibility in the south.
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Originally Posted by Praxus
If you call someone who cost the North hundreds of thousands of lives in a horrific war of atrition a great general then sure. But personally I would consider one who finishes it fast with little casulties and with positive conditions a great general.
The federal government's policies are what caused the war of attrition. Grant was just one of the ones having to fight it. Wars of that magnitude are not fought without massive casualties, and do not end with positive conditions.
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Old 04-24-2005, 15:20 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxus
If you call someone who cost the North hundreds of thousands of lives in a horrific war of atrition a great general then sure. But personally I would consider one who finishes it fast with little casulties and with positive conditions a great general.
That does do General Grant a disservice. There is a misunderstanding about attrition warfare - that you must be able to read the enemy correctly to apply the overwhelming force. On that note, General Grant was on par, if not surpassing, General Lee.

Lee had the uncanny ability to read ground and to take ground and deny the advantage of ground to the Union Forces, however, at pyhric costs. Before Grant, few Union Generals read this, and withdrew to better ground to fight another day. Grant saw that he was in a better position against Lee after Lee took the ground than before he took the ground and continued the battle.
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Old 04-24-2005, 20:36 PM   #27 (permalink)
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For those of you not old enough to remember LBJ, it would be wise to read up on him so that you can see that Carter was a brilliant leader of men in comparison.

"There's not an outhouse in Vietnam gets bombed without my say so".
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Despite his involvement of the US in the Vietnam war, I have to say that LBJ is my favorite pres. His micro management of the war was bad for US strategic planning, but the purpose was to ensure that things didn't get out of hand and cause China or the USSR to get involved. He got the US started in Vietnam because he felt that we had to fight communism militarily or watch the world fall to it. Not that I agree with his actions, but I can rationalize them for the thinking of the day.

I would say the worst pres. would be Herbert Hoover, for letting the US slip into the depression without doing anything about it.
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Old 04-24-2005, 21:19 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I agree....I've researched them all, and Herbert Hoover has to be the worst. Before the end of his first year in office, the bottom fell out of the American economy, and President Hoover, the man at the top, was readily held responsible for the worst economic depression in American history. Failing to use his executive power to stem the tide of closing banks and failing businesses, Hoover's name was routinely linked to Depression-era hardships. Only toward the end of his term did he institute emergency programs for the failed economy.

I would say Jimmy Carter runs the closest second worst.
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Old 04-24-2005, 21:43 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I vote for Clinton, though it will be years before we know the extent of the damage he did. He all but gave the keys to Los Alamos to China, and all those nuke designs, neutron bomb, etc.- that stuff will all get built someday.
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Old 04-24-2005, 21:48 PM   #30 (permalink)
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The worst president by far is George. W. Bush. I don't even want to start with him.
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