Alamgir

The great Mughals beat the crap out of the indians and ruled their country for over 300 years whether you can admit to it or not.

Taj Mahal was built and made a wonder of the World by the Arabs, Persians and Central Asias. The slaves who did the manual work were indian. The design and style is pure Persian-Islamic.

Whata load of more stinking crap Lol. Baluchestin is in West Asia and apart of the Iranain Plateau. It has no relation to the subcontinent, neither do the Baluch people who are Iranic and speak an Iranic language.



Thats right indians were forced to learn the language of their foreign masters, the Mughals, who spoke Persian.

Then STFU and get the hell out of this thread. Mughals were Muslims of Turko-Mongolid and Persian stock who ruled the indians and beat them black and blue for hundreds of years.

Aurangzeb kicked the crap out of the indians in the south. Aurangzeb spent the last two decades of his life in that hell hole fighting wars and killing the indians who live there, smashing their places and pummelling them into submission. Even your own indian people were used by Aurangzeb to come to the south and fight their own people. Lol. Which they gladly did.

Look in the mirror for a second, nay, third time. Lol. None of you indians are Persians, keep dreaming. The only Persians in india are the Parsis and they have been so diluted no anyway that they are more indian and basically the same as you. They can be counted in the hundreds. Thats the closest you'll ever get to a Persian in india.

Who cares? Part of Afghanistan was ruled by the Mughals, that does not make Afghanistan apart of some "hindustan" Lol. Afghanistan was a separate province from hindustan and had its own administration. hindustan is a word you wouldnt even have if it wasnt for us anyway. Lol.

Keep dreaming.

They ruled india, but dont and will never belong there.

American bombing Iran doesnt change the fact that Mughals were your foreign masters who came, saw and conquered india. Be thankful that they did come and gave your place things like roads and grand buildings and taught you people how to wear clothes and clean yourselves. Be thankful that they brought all of the barbarian petty kingdoms of the subcontinent people under one rule.

Yep. Shivaji never fought against the army of Aurangzeb since he was nothing but a bandit and a waylayer. Lol. Aurangzeb used Shivaji against the Deccani Sultans and then dropped him like a bad habbit.

Mughals were lost after Aurangzeb and i am glad that the Afghans and Persians came to smash the indians once again after Aurangzeb's death. So what if the Mughal's were given a death blow by Nadir Shah? Thats what they deserved for being too soft on you people Lol. Nadir Shah and Durrani humiliated the indians.

Probably, yes. Better than wearing whatever gandhi had on. Lol.

Babur's family was yes. He shared his blood line with both Genghis Khan and Tamerlane. The Mughals however were not Mongolian but Turko-Mongol. There is a difference. Mughals were later Persianized.

You're talking rubbish. No one defeated Aurangzeb in Punjab or anywhere else. The entire area you're talking about was under Mughal control until after the death of Aurangzeb. Those areas were taken from the Mughals by the Afghans who beat the crap out of the indians at a place near Delhi called Panipat. Nadir Shah of Persia had come and gave the detah blow to the Mughal kingdom. The Mughal province of Afghanistan and the areas west of the river Indus were ceded to Persia after the sacking of Delhi by Nadir Shah.

So dont talk nonsense about Aurangzeb being defeated in Punjab. Mughals were defeated by Afghans and Persians in their northern provinces after Aurangzebs death.

There are very few Mughal decedents since they ruled india with just their army. There is no mention of any huge shifts of population from the native Mughal homelands in Central Asia to india or Afghanistan because it never happened. Only the soldiers and begums etc kept coming from Central Asia and Persia to rule they indians. Mughals never colonized and brought their own populations. They just ruled indians.

So what if one place is gone? The other signs of Mughal domination of india remain.

Deccani Sultans were crushed by Aurangzeb as were the local indian chieftains of the area.

No. Im just stating that facts about the Mughals, who were not indians but yes they were the ruler of indians for hundreds of years.

Sameer

Let the Islamic fundamentalist be lads.


After links from encyclopedias, like a robot, he still repeats the same things over and over and over again. Madrassah education you see, all they do is memorize and spurt out the same things over and over again without using their heads. He conviniently forgot to mention that Arabs became slaves of Turks and the Persians ended up badly with the British along with India. let him be.

Encarta and wkpedia are official encyclopedias recognized as scholarly by everyone but the most retarded of Islamic fundamentalists. :0
chers mate
I had my laugh.

Sanscrit is an Indo European language and North Indians are descendents of barbaric Aryan tribes from Central Asia who invaded the more civilized Dravidians in Harappa. (believe me i am not proud of my Central Asian barbarian heritage) If you do not believe Encarta, Oxford, Harvard etc or widely available info, there is nothing I can do, I can only hope that there aren't more like you.

akash

Yup.

lemontree

As per historians Marathas were similar to the raiding and plundering Afghans only better mannered. Shivaji never worked for Aurangzeb. Shivaji had faught against the Adil Shahi of Bijapur and the Mughal chiefteins of Aurangzeb's empire. He was humbled many a time by the massive strength of the mughal armies but never gave in and remained a thorn throughout.
That is correct.
You are partly correct but are confusing the time lines.
The Sikh insurgency started in a small way after Guru Arjun Dev was killed by Jahangir, and later took on a storm after Guru Teg Bahadur was murdered by Aurangzeb. The insurgency continued well after the death of Aurangzeb (1707)and the Khalsa empire was established by 1749.
Maybe, but you still find mughal lineage amongst a few villages of J&K, so it would mean that some amount of population shift did take place.
Indeed, and we are happy for the rich heritage left by them. But the emotional issue of religious places remains. Today the communal tensions of the sub-continent can be directly traced to have its roots in Aurangzeb's rule. Before that it did not exist.
You are talking about the Qutub Shahi rulers of Golconda/Hyderabad. I am referring to the present areas of Tamil Nadu and Kerela.
Its just that your posts were laced with insults for Indians, which was in poor taste.

__________________

Cheers!...on the rocks!!

Samudra

Crap , I missed Alamgir !

Why doesnt it appear in the minds of his fans that this Aurangazebs every actions laid the foundations for the fall of the Moghul empire ? A fact so easily recognised by nearly all historians.

ha ha , they have welfare trusts in the name of this bashtard.

bull

THE ARYAN EMPIRE...followed by the mauryan empire.

the contibution they made to the world are innumerable...

1.They where the first to introduce the politcal system.


2.The Surya Siddhanta, A textbook on astronomy of ancient India, handed down from 3000 BC

Showed the Earth's diameter to be 7,840 miles, compared to modern measurements of 7,926.7 miles.

Showed the distance between the Earth and the Moon as 253,000 miles,
Compared to modern measurements of 252,710 miles.

3.Indians discovered Arithmetic and Geometric progression. Arithmetic progression is explained in Yajurveda.

4.They bought in Sanskrit language..Sanskrit was the classical language of India, older than Hebrew and Latin.It is the oldest, most scientific, systematic language in the world.

5.Ayurveda is the earliest school of medicine known to humans. Charaka, the father of medicine consolidated Ayurveda in 1000 BC.

6.The largest numbers the Greeks and the Romans used were 106 whereas Hindus used numbers as big as 10^53 with specific names as early as 5000 BC during the Vedic period. Even today, the largest used number is Tera: 10^12.

7.Maharshi Sushruta is the father of surgery. In 1500BC and health scientists of his time conducted complicated surgeries like caesareans, cataract, artificial limbs, fractures, urinary stones and even plastic surgery.

__________________
What's the difference between people who pray in church and those who pray in casinos?
The ones in the casinos are serious.

Samudra

There was no Aryan Empire.
Read "The Journey of Man".

Thoroughly documented and verified with DNA samples.

bull

then which ever empire during the that period.

Alamgir

Lol JACKASS. http://en.wikipedia.org/ is a free internet site where ANYONE can SUBMIT and EDIT articles to do with ANY topic WITHOUT providing ANY references. Like i said you are that CHEAP you need to rely on that site for YOUR education, Lol.

Lol no i didnt. Arabs were not enslaved by the Turks and Arab-Turk issues have nothing to do with the great Mughals and their beating the crap out of indians for hundreds of years.

What scholar recognizes http://en.wikipedia.org/ ? Talking out your rear end again, Lol. Thats the only end you talk out off. And damn, what a dirty smell it leaves behind, Haha

Thats right, a few Aryan tribes defeated an entire subcontinent of indians, forced you to learn their language and treat them as your masters before they were eventually assimilated into indian population and became the same as you. Lol

You dont have any Central Asian heritage you are an indian and your roots are in india and you will never pass for anything else but an indian. Lol, what a sick person, you wish were were one of us. You are indian and nothing else just be happy with that or isnt that possible? Lol

Talking out the rear again. No one from Oxford or Harvard has come here backing your crappy lies abou the Mughals Lol so WTF! are you talking about? Save it for someone who gives a crap......

Alamgir

Wrong. Shivaji even had attended one of the sessions at Aurangzeb's court where Aurangzeb had refused to acknowledge the presence of Shivaji even though he was the one who had sent him the invite.

Right, so there was an insurgency. But you had said earlier that Aurangzeb was defeated in the Panjab when that is NOT true. Aurangzeb was never defeated there, he spent the last 2 decades of his rule in the south of india fighting wars there.

A few villages? That counts for nothing.

So was those indians trying to reinvent history and claim that the great Mughals were indians. An insulting lie that even they know they are lieing about but tried their best to promote it. What a shame for them that the Mughal history is well known outside of subcontinent enough that we all know about them and where they came from, what they did and so on.

Sameer

I did not want to respond to the local Mullah around the forum but after reading this i could not resist, you talkk about discrediting credible links but eyt provide nothing but your **** as reference yourself, let me have my fun in ridiculing a racist idiot like you who belongs in the FBI list rather than this forum.

CAN YOU EDIT ENCARTA TOO NOW OR ARE YOU GOING TO SPEW YOUR BULL MANURE AGAIN?
http://uk.encarta.msn.com/encycloped...al_Empire.html
"Mughal Empire, Indian empire which—in actuality or in name—ruled the subcontinent for over 300 years (1526-1857), with a brief interregnum under the Sur sultans (1540-1555). Of these three centuries, for some 150 years (1556-1707), under Akbar and his immediate successors, Jahangir, Shah Jahan, and Aurangzeb, the empire enjoyed a notably strong and efficient administration"

read indian empire in there idiot.

"The Mughal ruling class was complex and heterogenous, but integrated into a single imperial service. At higher levels this class or the nobles comprised mainly the Central Asians (Turains), the Persians (Iranis), the Afghans, the Indian Muslims, and the Rajputs."

NOW READ THE RAJPUT TERM IN THERE AND STOP COMMING OVER HERE WITHOUT REFERENCES ALL TEH TIME AND SPILLING YOUR BS.

"The Mughal tax system depended largely on the support these ranking officials secured from the local Hindu landed gentry (zamindars), who collected revenue from the peasants and paid it to the treasury, keeping a part for themselves in return of their services and as a hereditary right over the land. The Hindu zamindars, spread all over the empire, emerged as one of its most important classes of intermediaries."

"The Mughals also appropriated the Hindu political rituals and customs—such as applying tika on the forehead of the political subordinates—to create a niche for themselves in local societies. The practice began with Babur, who advised Humayun to take special care of the religious susceptibilities of the local Indian peoples. Akbar backed the practice with a political ideology which continued to be the bedrock of the state until the end of the Mughal Empire, even though some of the Mughals, including Aurangzeb, conceded to opposing forces. The Mughal political and religious culture thus acquired a syncretic and cosmopolitan overtone.

The Mughals' close relations with prominent ruling Rajput families were intended to ensure political stability and to reinforce the legitimacy of their power. Furthermore, at lower levels the administration was largely in the hands of the Hindu officials. As a result, it was not only the local ruling aristocracy who allied with the Mughals but also a considerable portion of the urban Hindu clerical and trading castes."

EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR THE LAST TWO PAGES

THERE IS A REASON WHY THE MUGHAL EMPIRE IS PUT UNDER THE TERM INDIAN, IF YOU DISAGREE WITH YET ANOTHER SCHOLARLY ENCYCLOPEDIA, THERE IS AGAIN NOTHING I CAN DO FOR YOU. FROM MARRYING HINDU PRINCESSES TO ADOPTING HINDU CUSTOMS TO HAVING EMPERORS WITH INDIAN BLOOD IN THEM, I REALLY DO NOT KNOW WHY I SHOULD EVEN BOTHER WITH AN IGNORAMOUS LIKE YOUSELF. If you think that the Mughal Empire would have survived without the support of the locals, then you are as stupid as the last Mughal Emperor. jesus Christ man, i have visited so many tumbs in Delhi, wonder why foreigners would not get buried in Persia.

Also the so called Aryan race was assimilated into Indian culture, i do not wish to ridicule you anymore.

Also in terms of **** smell, i think its time tor ediscover your toilet paper mate.


Dont ever come back and post garbage again without links, imbeciles dont have that luxuary.

Sameer

Battle of Saraighat
The Battle of Saraighat was fought between the Mughal forces lead by Raja Ram Singh and the Ahoms lead by Lachit Borphukan, the Ahom governor of Guwahati in 1671. The Mughal army was defeated by a militarily much weaker Ahom army which used a combination of guerrilla tactics, psychological warfare and military intelligence. The defining battle was fought on the river Brahmaputra, which Lachit Borphukan personally lead, in spite of a high fever.

http://www.answers.com/topic/battle-of-saraighat


WOW A HINDU HEADED A MUGHAL ARMY?
NO WAYYYY

"The Mughals struck back in March 1669. Raja Ram Singh was the commander in chief of the advancing Mughal army which consisted of 30,000 infantry, 15,000 archers, 18,000 Turkish cavalry, 5,000 gunners and over 1000 cannons besides a large flotilla of boats. Portuguese and other European sailors were employed, to man the fleet. These forces moved up the Brahmaputra from Dhaka to Guwahati. Lachit's spies kept him informed of the progress of Ram Singh's advance. The Mughals laid siege to Guwahati, which lasted for a little over one year."

sO NOT THE WHOLE ARMY WAS tURKISH?


tHIS IS WHY I ALWAYS SAY, MADRASSAH EDUCATION IS PATHETIC.

and the Indian Assamese beat the crxx out of the Mughals in that fight too.


NOW I BET THAT THE LOCAL ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST ALMAGIR WILL AGAIN POST YET ANOTHER REPETITIVE POST.

Looking through my crystal ball i predict the following

1) THE MUGHALS ARE FROM CENTRAL ASIA
2) THEY BEAT THE CRXP OUIT OF YOU INDIANS
3) I AM SO HAPPY YEY I AM TEN YEARS OLD.

Alamgir

Ok, now that you have put your spin on what you quoted and omitted what information goes against your false and insulting claims that the great Mughals were indians here's the unspun version of what you quoted.

From your own link:

india under the rule of the British was also known as the 'indian empire', the British indian empire. Britain the rulers, india and indians the ruled. The same is here. Note the word "Mughal" at the very start. Mughals the rulers, india and indians the people and territory ruled. Why? Because thats the truth. Lol

Now lets see what else you had omitted and put a spin on.

You decided to try and hide this from your own 'source' since it clearly smacks your crappy lie about the Mughals right back in your face, Lol

Babur, A CENTRAL ASIAN not an "indian". Lol

And here is what else you left out, deliberately.

In conclusion, the Mughals were a Central Asian and foreign power that kicked the crap out of the indians and ruled their country for hundreds of years, bringing with them their own Central Asian traditions and institutions. Mughals were later Persianized after a few generations culturally and linguistically. Evidence is from the recordes kept in the memoirs of the Mughals themselves and from the court scribes.

Therefore, the Mughals were not indians but yer they were the ruler of the indians for over 300 years.

indians could not do anything but become servants for the Mughals and work for them in whatever eay the Mughals saw fit Lol. But even that wasnt good enough which is why fresh blood kept coming in from Central Asia and Iran.

Clearly, the Mughals didnt want you or consider themselves to be one of you. That is why they smashed every indian place and people they could Lol

The end.

Sameer

I do not know if your repetitive posts are a product of the madrassah that you attended or the fact that you may be a good advertisement for a birth control pill but i never once claimed that \babur was \indian, him being the FIRST MUGHAL TO COME FROM CENTRAL ASIA ..... never mind, my post from the begining had been about Akbar onWARDS AND I HAVE PROVEN TO YOU THAT#
1) MOST OF THE MARY WAS COMPRISED OF INDIAN TROOPS. IDIOT
2) THE GENERAL OF THE ARMY IN MANY BATTLES WERE INDIANS IDIOT
3) MOGUL KINGS FROM JEHANGIR ONWARDS HAD INDIAN BLOOD IN THEM DUE TO A CERTAIN HINDU PRINCESS IDIOT AND MANY A MUGHAL EMPEROR ADOPTED INDIAN CUSTOMS.
#4) ALL ALL ALL READ ALL IDIOT MINUS MADRASSAHS WILL PUT THE MUGHAL EMPIRE UNDER INDIAN EMPIRE, CAN YOU NOT READ ENGLISH. NOONE IS SAYING THAT THE MUGHALS DID NOT COME FROM CENTRAL ASIA, IT WAS SAID THAT THEY WERE INDIANIZED, NOW I UNDERSTAND THAT ENGLISH MAY NOT BE YOUR FORTE, I SUGGEST THAT YOU STICK TO YOUR USUAL PAKISTANI BS IN KARACHI RATHER THAN A FORUM.

cheers

Sameer

This is why madrassah education is bad. \noone is in denial that the \Mughals came from \central |Asia just like noone is in denial that we call came from \africa, the fact that all \mughals from |Akbar onwards lived and died in \india and adopted \indian customs and had most of their army being comprised of indians and even going as far as to have \indians as generals to lead battles on behalf of their army and having a large % of the bureaucracy being \indian native....

never mind, our friend is again more interested in trying to find a way to flame and post racial remarks, comming from a madrassah, it is of course of no surprise, we \indians are afterall kafrs. \the idiot has for favourite emperor a man who was responsible for making it vrumble, that speaks volumes in itself about the intellect of such a member.

This is my last post to yuou, this could go on and on and i have no time to waste on idiots who cant even fathem to understand \encarta and company, first i made it up, then they are not scholarly enough, now..... \god, imbecile. For all i care you can now claim that the \mughals were Dutch, i have with links proven my point, all sensible members can read for themselves, no need to get a history lesson from an \islamic fundamentalist.