Sameer

The marassah educated man above seems to have a complete lack of logic, these later Mughal emperors were born in INdia and intermarried with Rajput princesses hence being born and bred and mothered by Hindu mothers.

but the logic of that will escape you as it may put the link of infidels to your "holy version" of truth.

Sameer

There is no way the Mughal Empire would have survived had it not been for Akbar's courting of HIndu Rajputs, this is why he proposed intermarriages and had 65% of his army composed of Rajput troops. Again the madrassah you went to never taught you this concept.
Akbar, though a Muslim, is remembered as a tolerant ruler, and he even started a new faith, Din-i-Ilahi, which was an attempt to blend Islam with Hinduism, Christianity, Jainism, and other faiths. He won over the Hindus by naming them to important military and civil positions, by conferring honors upon them, and by marrying a Hindu princess.


In fact Akbar even abolished the Muslim calender to follow a solar one. Akbar being bred for most of his life as an Indian had no quelms about that. ONly babur emphasized his Turkic heritage. The fact that the empire was compromised of a Hindu majority as subbjects and had a majority of Hindus in the army since Akbar makes it as Indian as I.

I suggest to memebrs to quietly ignore the Muslim fundamentalist up there, in fact ANY ENCYCLOPEDIA OF NOTE LISTS THE MUGHAL EMPIRE UNDER INDIAN HISTORY AND IT BEING AN INDIAN EMPIRE. Maybe in Pakistan where they think that by converting to Islam they suddenly become Persian, it may be different but to the rest of the world (non madrassah educated on), its simply not true.

Anyway my post was more concearned with CHina which was not mentioned at all. The only slaves in the post 15th century world were blacks and Arabs (them under Turkish rule) .

Hindus too are of Indo-European/ Central Asian stock (North Indians), rajputs have ungarian blood in them as well, by that stupid Muslim fundamentalist logic, no Indian is really Indian at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mughal
An astute ruler who genuinely appreciated the challenges of administering so vast an empire, Akbar introduced a policy of reconciliation and assimilation of Hindus (including Maryam al-Zamani, the Hindu Rajput mother of his son and heir, Jahangir), who represented the majority of the population. He recruited and rewarded Hindu chiefs with the highest ranks in government; encouraged intermarriages between Mughal and Rajput aristocracy; allowed new temples to be built; personally participated in celebrating Hindu festivals such as Deepavali, or Diwali, the festival of lights; and abolished the jizya (poll tax) imposed on non-Muslims. Akbar came up with his own theory of "rulership as a divine illumination," enshrined in his new religion Din-i-Ilahi (Divine Faith), incorporating the principle of acceptance of all religions and sects. He encouraged widow re-marriage, discouraged child marriage, outlawed the practice of sati, and persuaded Delhi merchants to set up special market days for women, who otherwise were secluded at home. By the end of Akbar's reign, the Mughal Empire extended throughout most of India north of the Godavari River. The exceptions were Gondwana in central India, which paid tribute to the Mughals, Assam in the northeast, and large parts of the Deccan.
In 1600, Akbar's Mughal empire had a revenue of £17.5 million. By comparison, in 1800, the entire treasury of Great Britain totalled £16 million.

Akbar's empire supported vibrant intellectual and cultural life. A large imperial library included books in Hindi, Persian, Greek, Kashmiri, English, and Arabic, such as the Shanameh, Bhagavata Purana and the Bible. Akbar sought knowledge and truth wherever it could be found and through a wide range of activities. He regularly sponsored debates and dialogues among religious and intellectual figures with differing views, and he welcomed Jesuit missionaries from Goa to his court. Akbar directed the creation of the Hamzanama, an artistic masterpiece that included 1400 large paintings.




COPNFIRMING THAT JAHANGIR'S MOTHER WAS HINDU AND HIM BEING BORN IN INDIA= INDIAN.

also notice the Rajput King which was helping Akbar.....

Alamgir

Babur and Humayun were full Mughal. Akbar's mother (Hamida) was a Persian. Jahangir and Shah Jahan had indian mothers (just two of many concubines of the emperors). Aurangzeb's mother (Mumtaz) was a Persian.

Therefore, none of the Mughals were "indians". Family's follow the fathers line, which was Mughal. There was even more Persian blood in the later Mughal Emporers than indian.

None of the Mughal army comprised any indian.

indians that faught for the Mughals were nothing but auxilaries and were kept separate from the main force, which comprised Central Asians and Persians.

Keep wishing that Mughals were indians. Lol. It'll never happen. Mughals were your masters, live with it.

BTW, Mughals never proposed intermarriage with indians. It was the indians who sold off their daughters to the Mughal army so that they could keep from getting themselves massacred. Lol.

As for 65% of Mughal army being indians? LOL. What a flippin joke. If a free internet website that anyone can edit is your best source for Mughal or indeed any history you are either extremely cheap for not going out and buying some real books or you are just a plain wacko who is desperate to save face even though you know full well that the great Mughals were not indians and did not respect indians Lol.

And WTF is a "marassah" ??

Haha, God bless the great Central Asian and Persian dynasty known as the MUGHALS.

Aurangzeb was a great man and a great ruler. I respect what he did against the indians. Lol and you want to claim he was one of you? Thats just so pathetic and disturbing it doesnt deserve any serious debate.

You MUST be joking! hindus are Central Asians? LOLOLOLOLOL

Please stop. Your embarrassing yourself.

Heck, i feel embarrassed for you.

Sameer

Even in the pre Mughal Islamic period in India, Muslim conquerors intermarried and became very Indian, more facts for the madrassah ecducated from an encyclopedia.

http://www.islamicarchitecture.org/d...e-mughals.html



Now about China.

The ancient Chinese armies were probably much more advanced than anything else in the world. China also had one of the largest empires out there and accounted for 30% of total world output until 1700, how this does not make it qualify into the greatest is beyound me.

Sameer

ITS AN ENCYCLOPEDIA STUPID. BUT KEEP ON REWRITING HISTORY.

Let me embarass you one more time, again madrassah education for all to see lol.


AncestrybyDNA | Euro-DNA | Book Store
Ancestry Kit | Upgrade | Manual | Experiments | Accuracy and Precision | Ethnicities |
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East Asian affiliation in South Asian Indians
We see average East Asian affiliation at levels around 25% for South Asian Indians. Others working on Y-chromosome and mtDNA haplotypes have seen a similarly significant level of East Asian affiliation for this population:


Rosenberg et al., 2002 showed considerable East Asian affiliation in South Asian Indians and other Central Asians (from 10-40%, depending on the ethnicity, see Figure ROSENBERG , Central Asian columns, k=4).
Underhill et al., 2001 showed a significant frequency of East Asian Y-chromosome haplotypes in South Asian Indians and Near Eastern populations (from 5-15% of all Y-haplotypes, depending on the region, see Figure UNDERHILL ).

Underhill, P., G. Passarino, A. Lin, P. Shen, M. Mirazon Lahr, R. Foley, P. Oefner and L. Cavalli-Sforza. 2001. The phylogeography of Y chromosome binary haplotypes and the origins of modern human populations
http://www.ancestrybydna.com/welcome...ies/#eastasian

Sameer

I can continue your humiliation forever

http://members.tripod.com/~tanmoy/bengal/races.html

A study of the skulls from ancient South Asia showed presence of three groups of people.

Most of the hunter-gatherer skulls from South Asia clustered with upper paleolithic skulls from Europe.
The skulls from Harappa were sharply distinct from these.
The foraging and farming populations of South and Central India are intermediate between the other two.
In India, from anthropometric studies, one used to find traces of seven races of humans who intermixed to create the Indian race. Modern studies within regional contexts are still rare; so one mostly has to look back to the global genetic studies. Northwest India shares with west Asia and eastern Europe (and pockets in Africa and South East Asia) the maximum heterozygosity known among world populations, with means between 0.35 and 0.37; and the rest of India (and Europe) is only slightly lower: 0.33 to 0.35. This shows the vast amount of admixture that has gone on in these regions: to be contrasted against Australia which has a homozygosity of less than 0.25. It is currently accepted that at least four strata are visible in the populations in different parts of India.

An australoid-veddoid substratum.
A migration from the east of Austrasiatic and sino-tibetan language speaking groups.
Neolithic migrations from western Iran, probably proto-Dravidian.
The aryan expansion from north of Caspian sea via Turkmenia and Northern Iran.


NOW GO BACK TO YOUR MADRASSAH BEFORE YOU GET ANOTHER BEATING.

Sameer

"Babur and Humayun were full Mughal. Akbar's mother (Hamida) was a Persian. Jahangir and Shah Jahan had indian mothers (just two of many concubines of the emperors). Aurangzeb's mother (Mumtaz) was a Persian.

Therefore, none of the Mughals were "indians". Family's follow the fathers line, which was Mughal. There was even more Persian blood in the later Mughal Emporers than indian."


Look this is not the 9th century, or your local madrassah, when a man mates with a woman, the genes go half half to the kid. I am sorry to teach you basic sex education but they do not teach you this in madrassahs. Jehangir being half genetically Indian and being born in India makes him Indian. All north Indians have INDO EUROPEAN BLOOD IN THEM, GO OPEN A HISTORY BOOK, i do not have to waste my time in ridiculing an Islamic fundamentalist like yourself. Your fallacy about the composition of the Mughal armies under Akbar onwards is pathetic to say the least and shows your ignorance of history. The Mughal Army was composed of a vast majority of Rajput prince armies who served as commanders under Akbar, who btw was very Indian since he adopted som many Indian traditions as was POSTED FROM AN OFFICIAL SCHOLARLY LINK, not a figment of madrassah education.

i leave the rest to the viewers.

I think that our fundamentalist seems to be more concearned about making sure than "kafrs" have nothing to do with any Islamic empire rather than historical fact, is it any wonder why the Mughal Empire is always listed under Indian history by ALL ENCYCLOPEDIAS.
idiots galore.

Alamgir

Lol. Like im gonna read all that copy and pasted crap.

Here are the facts:

1) The Mughals were Central Asians and Persians.
2) The Mughals beat the sh** out of the indians and ruled them for hundreds of years.
3) indian leaders that you call rajputs (nothing but thieves and bandits according to Babur) sold their daughters to the Mughals to save their own skin.
4) Mughals despised the indians and india. Babur was so disgusted with indian that he refused to be buried there. Read it and weep, its all in his memoirs.
5) Shah Jahan reintroduced Jaziya and began to smash all the indian peoples place of worship. Would he have done that if he respected indians? Lol.
6) Aurangzeb spent over 2 decades in the south parts of india fighting wars against the indians and beating the crap out of them.

In conclusion, the Mughals were not indians, they were the ruler of the indians and were their masters.

PS, You are NOT from Central Asia. Lol, like i said earlier this is the most disgusting argument i have ever seen. You have some serious issues, you are an indian and from india, that is your native place. Be happy with it.

Sheeeeeeeeesh

Sameer

Such madrassah logic excells in you i have to say but i will stick to encyclopedias and scholarly links and you can stick to yyour local Mullah okay ?



More facts with links
http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/Mughal_Empire

Religion
The Mughal Empire was Islamic, although many of the subjects of the Empire, up to and including very high-ranking members of the court, were Hindu. When Babur first founded the Empire, he did not emphasize his religion, but rather his Turkic and Persian heritage. (The name "Mughal" seems to have been attached somewhere in the 16th century. It is derived from Mongol, another piece of Babur's ancestry.) Under Akbar, the court abolished the jizya, the tax on non-Muslims, and abandoned use of the lunar Muslim calendar in favor of a solar calendar more useful for agriculture. These actions were later retracted by Aurangzeb, known for his religiosity, but even under Aurangzeb, one quarter of his court princes were Rajput Hindus.

http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com...pire#Reference





btw I am from India and I am Indian but my ancestory as shown to you with facts and encyclopedias lol (you seem luike a stupid robot) ios of Indo European descent. NOW I DO NOT KNOW IF YOU UNDERSTAND ENGLISH OR WHAT A SHOLARLY LINK IS BUT INDO-EUROPEAN RINGS A BELL WITH YOU LOL LOL LOL. NOTE INDO



I think that you have been humiliated with scholarly links more than once now, you are just being a troll, until you can discredit Encarta and wkpedia encyclopedias, people should ignore you, again if you wish me and sane people can stick to scholarly facts and you can stick to your wet dreams madrassah induced facts?

okay?



In other news one cannot only have "Indian Empire" or "Chinese Empire", these two civs are 5000 years old and HAD MANY EMPIRES, the Gupta Dynasty in INdia accounted for 42% of world GDP, that to me makes it one of the greatest empires on Earth, see Encarta....
If one is to look at history from the begining of CHinese civ and add up GDP number estimates based on ooutput estimation regression analyusis conducted by Oxford in 1978, China is number 1.

Jay

Yeah, they ruled their own courtyard and its called an empire. Bwaah ha haa!

The same "what mutiny" that broght the end of Mughals in India. I feel pity, your half a dozen books didnt mention this??

There was no India back in his days, and ofcourse everything is South from North pole

Nope, they were from apes, like you, if Darwin is right.

Can you read E N G L I S H?? If you can read this again...


From Turkey came Ismail Khan, a designer of hemispheres and a builder of domes. Qazim Khan, a native of Lahore, travelled to Agra to cast the solid gold finial that crowned the Turkish master's dome. Chiranjilal, a local lapidary from Delhi, was chosen as the chief sculptor and mosaicist. Amanat Khan from Persian Shiraz, Iran was the chief calligrapher, and this fact is attested on the Taj gateway where his name has been inscribed at the end of the inscription. Muhammad Hanif was the Supervisor of masons, while Mir Abdul Karim and Mukkarimat Khan of Shiraz handled finances and the management of daily production. Sculptors from Bukhara, calligraphers from Syria and Persia, inlayers from southern India, stonecutters from Baluchistan, a man who specialised in building turrets, another who carved only marble flowers - thirty seven men in all formed the creative nucleus, and to this core was added a labour force of twenty thousand workers recruited from across northern India.

Lahore, Delhi, Baluchistan and South India are all in India subcontinent. They built the Taj Mahal not some Martian from Persia, got it??

May be you dont give a crap about Tansen, but Akbar did, and thats why they called him Mian Tansen, per Akbar's decree Tansen, Birbal and Todar Mal were among the Navaratnas (nine jewels) of Akbar's court. Birbal was conferred the title Raja and he died battling for Akbar. Todar Mal was the Finance minister for Akbar. Akbar has Raja Man Singh inducted in to Mughal hierarchy and was known as an Emir.

May be its time for you to read Akbarnama in Persian again!!

On that count who gives a fcuk, no one knows, Aurangazeb may indded be born to a slave mother. May be thats why Shah Jehan hated him to core

I guess you comfortably forgot your post about the marbles used for Taj Mahal!! did you refer your half a dozen books on Mughal rulers?? Where did they come from?? Mars or Venus??

The white marble was brought from Rajasthan, the jasper from Punjab and the jade and crystal from China. The turquoise was from Tibet and the Lapis lazuli from Afghanistan, while the sapphire came from Sri Lanka and the carnelian from Arabia.

Its better than the crap you spewed all over.

Just coz you write them??

Its said that people who inhabitate present day North India are also from Central Asia and Persia. Better yet, read Spencer Wells, he says even the earlest known inhabitants in now India were also from middle east. Heck the dravidian languages have a close relationship with Elam (Elamite) which makes them Persians by that logic. After all they moved 5-10000 years before, but by your ogic, they can never be Indians

There was no India then, its was hindustan that enclosed present day Afghanistan, Pakistan and North India.

Call them what you want, they pissed in their pants, so they married the rajputs to keep them quiet.


Both the above are your posts, instead of flip flopping find an answer and let us know. Why was Babaur buried outside India and why did the others were buried in India??

Jaziya has got nothing to do with hindustan. Its a muslim Vs non-muslim thing. Akbar repelled Jazia so does it mean Akbar is hindustani while his sons were not??

Hee hee hoo hoo, really? Other than Bijapur and Golconda stupid a$$ Aurangazebra cudnt muster enough troops to invade the South. They become independent right after his death. Not to mention that Shivaji pricked Aurangazeb's rage more than once

Look at this map, all the areas in Yellow were under Marathas in 1760.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...a1760_1905.jpg

Where do I see Mughal empire there? eh?? in Aurangazebra's grave

Says who?? In conclusion any one who lived, worked and died and got buried in hindustan for generations, will be known as hindustanis.

Ofcourse, I'm from present day India, I neither claim a Central Asian ancestory nor I want to associated with the idiot Aurangazeb. I'm from an area which was never under Aurangazeb or any of the Mughal rulers who ruled.

After all his feats, killing hundred and thousands of his soldiers and busting his finances, this is what Aurangazeb, the idiot has to say in his death bed,

Tsk...tsk...reality dawned at him, his enlightment was too late...I feel sorry for him

__________________
A grain of wheat eclipsed the sun of Adam !!

Alamgir

STFU! Lol. Talking smack about Mullahs you dont even know who your ancestor was Lol, whether he was a Central Asian (YOU WISH) or if he was some half-naked indian.

Giving me links to a free online website that anyone can edit and write articles for does not count as academic let alone 'scholarly'.

Are you that cheap you cant even buy yourself some real books that have real facts?

Ah yes. You rather deny the truth and try to save face. Well, it aint gonna work.

After the reign of the great Aurangzeb Alamgir the Mughal history is of no interest to me. Still tho, they ruled your country and people for over 100 years after the last great Mughals death.

Lol. Some kind of joke? Call india what you want, the land has always been there and it was ruled and dominated for hundreds of years by a Turko-Mongoloid and Persian dynasty known as the Mughals.

Dream on Lol. The slaves that did the manual work were indian but those that made the Taj Mahal a wonder of the World were Persians, Arabs and Central Asians. The Taj Mahal is 100% Persian-Islamic in design there is nothing indian about it.

BTW Baluchestan is not in subcontinent Lol what the hell are you talking about? Baluchestan is in West Asia and Baloch are an Iranic people. In Iran it is called Sistan va Baluchestan. Even the pakistani Baloch dont call themselves subcontinent people they are true to their West Asian roots which is where there land is, was and will always be.

Who gives a crap about some rubbish indian finance minister? Lol, doesnt mean anything. Fact remains that Persian was the language of the Mughals, a language their indian servants were forced to learn.

You wish. Aurangzeb was born to Mumtaz Mahal, a lady of noble Persian blood.

OMG Lol that is one SICK joke. You wish you were one of us. You are from INDIA be proud of it. LOL what you so ashamed of? Hahah, cant take it that Mughals beat your behind and ruled you for hundreds of years now you trying to claim indians came from Central Asia and Persia? You are in serious denial, take a look in the mirror why dont you LOLLOL.

Spencer Who? LOL

Afghanistan has NEVER and will NEVER be known as Hindustan. You people are the sickest most unbelievable liars i ahve ever come across. Dont you have any pride or shame at all? LOLOL first trying to claim the Mughals (your masters) were from india then talking crap about Afghanistan being in india LOL.

Right thats why none of the indian men were allowed to marry any noble Mughal or Persian ladies. If any indian had dared he would have had his balls cut off and them fed to his dirt poor starving family Lol.

Babur was buried in Kabul because he was that disgusted with india that he couldnt even bear the thought of being buried there. The rest of the Mughals were buried in their kingdom since in Islam it doesnt matter where you are buried and there was no need to have transported their bodies to Kabul. Rather, they left you people with indias only worthwhile monuments as an everlasting reminder of their rule and domination of your country.

Shivaji was a bandit who worked for Aurangzeb a number of times as his pawn, and you worship this theif? Lol. Aurangzeb kicked the crap out of the indians everywhere he went. While he was alive the indian was in fear every waking day. He smashed your armies, smashed your places of worship, smashed your petty kingdoms so bad that you have never got over it and never will. That is why indians talk so much trash against a great man like Aurangzeb Alamgir.

And how long did that last LOL. And what did they achieve? NOTHING. It was then MORE Central Asians (Afghans) and Persians (Nadir Shah) who came to india and beat the crap out you, looted Delhi taking Koh-i-Noor and Peacock throne with them, Lol.

Never. Lol. Keep telling yourself that, it wont change history or what the Mughals did to you and thought about you.

Nice quote from Aurangzeb. He was indeed, a great man.

And yes the white marble for the Taj Mahal came from Persia.

Jay

As I said, Mughals never ruled my country nor my ancestors.

Read any history books, I dont see Mughals being called Persian dynasty

Now, who is dreaming, you didnt prove squat that Taj Mahal indeed was designed and built by so called Persians, while I have already proved it. May be its time to consult your amazon bought persian books?

Sheesh, so you confortably forgot Lahore and Delhi from my posts?? Balochistan is a part of Indian sub continent, like it or not, its basic geography. Sistan what?? I dont give a $hit to what its called in Iran. It does not belong to Iran and it is in Indian sub continent.

Well, Akbar gave some crap, thats why he appointed Todar mal as his finance minister. I dont give a $hit to Persian being learnt by them. after all, its always good to learn another language.

Noble persian blood Did you sample it?? Are you sure there were no traces of anything other than "Persian" blood in Aurangazeb?

Heck, why would I want to be one of you sicko's! I dont want to be ruled by some stupid islamists.

I'm from India and I'm proud of it, unlike you, who seems to have wet dreams about the ruler who lived and died in Hindustan.

As I said, Mughals cant do $hit against the place where I come from. May be if it can help bust your ego, consider the drubbing Mughals got from Marathas.

Indeed, a lot of Indians came from Persia. And I dont need to look at the mirror, coz I didnt claim so.

Re read your amazon bought persian books and after you are done with it, read about Jorney of man, its not in Persian, unfortunately its in Engish. do you want some mughal courtisians to translate em??

Afghanistan was under Mughal rule and their capital was Delhi. Afghanistan was under Maurya rule. I dont know wehter it means its a part of Hindustan all the while, but atleast more than once in history, Afghanistan was ruled from Delhi and Pataliputra.

I cant beat your marble story So that unbelievable liar thing must be you.

Should I need to show my pride and shame in an internet board? How old are you?

Mughals were never my masters and yes they belong to and ruled Hindustan.

May be then you have to take that to Akbar, as he conferred Raja Mansingh as Emir.

So Babur was not islamic?? Everlasting reminder of what?? I love to see America bombing Iran to oblivion so that all the world would see the everlasting reminder for erring.

He he, nice twist. But thats not the truth. Shivaji pricked Auragazeb many a times. Its been documented, didnt you read it?

Really? Right after he becoming the Emperor for 7 years all his raids were unsuccessful. Now dont twist it, using mullah logic.