Ok, Why?

**BB61Vet** · 01 Oct 11,, 17:26

We have been at constant war for nearing 10 years straight now.

Someone please tell me WHY there have been exactly zero promotions to the 5-star rank?

**Dreadnought** · 01 Oct 11,, 17:56

In a navy sense, Halsey was the last 5 star Admiral or "Fleet" Admiral during WWII. The USN has so many waships at sea that it was necessary to have your 5 Star Admirals that held decision overall in the Pacific. Halseys Task Force alone during Leyte Gulf was more then 240 ships in all including Allies.

The Five Stars were also created for all Forces because they were "supervisors" in charge of many higher ranking Officers of the Allied Forces.

Your 5 Star Admirals of "Fleet" Admiral

Admiral William D. Leahy
Admiral Ernest J. King
Admiral Chester Nimitz
Admiral William F. "Bull" Halsey.

You also had 4 Army 5 Stars Generals and 1 Air Force 5 Star General.

Army

General George C. Marshall
General Douglas MacArthur
General Dwight D. Eisenhower
General Omar N. Bradley

Air Force

General Henry Arnold.

**BB61Vet** · 01 Oct 11,, 19:01

So in your estimation we aren't fielding enough troops or ships to warrant a 5 star? IMHO any 2 front war should have at least one (yep, Afghanistan and Iraq I'm counting as 2 fronts of the same war...).

**BD1** · 01 Oct 11,, 19:13

which one of the enemies might warrant a full general post? the enemy are goat herders of Afghanistan and off-duty bazaar salesmen in Iraq. Five star command is AFAIK for Army Group level, not for operations against some glorified Liberian Militia

**BB61Vet** · 01 Oct 11,, 19:42

Ah, but in keeping with this war we're having upon a CONCEPT... CINCUSATF would warrant a 4star (read atf as 'antiterrorism task force'). Since we already have CINCPAC and CINCLANT, we now unite (don't read as untie!) them under one 5-star.

I know, clutching at straws, but if only for morale purposes, we could use a 5star somewhere.

**USSWisconsin** · 01 Oct 11,, 20:18

With media doing the reporting, rather than the General's own dispatches - IMO, the politics of surviving and thriving is much more difficult for a General these days.

**Albany Rifles** · 01 Oct 11,, 20:29

We already have too many damn fleet and flag rank officers.

No need for a 5 star.....

More living awardees of the Medal of Honor? Now I am good with that.

**Doktor** · 01 Oct 11,, 23:56

Not only the need, but also, I wouldn't level any of the current "stars" with Nimitz, Ike or Bradley.

As BD1 pointed out, maybe there is a material in the senior officers, just nowhere to show it.

**Gun Grape** · 02 Oct 11,, 04:53

Originally Posted by Albany Rifles

We already have too many damn fleet and flag rank officers.

Sen Webb, Former SecNav, seems to think so too. and asked "Why?"

No good reason was found

Senator Webb Questions DoD on Number of Flag Officers and Disparity Among Services

Press Releases

Senator Webb Questions DoD on Number of Flag Officers and Disparity Among Services

September 15, 2011

Washington, DC—Senator Jim Webb, chair of the Armed Services Personnel Subcommittee, yesterday questioned senior military and DoD officials about the disparate levels of general and flag officers among the services.

In fiscal year 1986, there was roughly one general or flag officer for every 2,000 service members; in fiscal year 2011, that number was one for only 1,474 service members. Among the services, the Air Force now has one general or flag officer for roughly every 1000 active-duty members, while the Marine Corps has one for every 2300, the Army one for every 1800 and the Navy one for every 1300. The Air Force with 332,280 members has more one-star generals (151) than the Army with 569,400 members, and four times as many as the Marine Corps.

“Where is it decided and how is it decided that each of these services has the justification or the requirement for the flags that we see here?” asked Senator Webb.

Beyond citing statutory limitations in Title 10 U.S. Code, the witnesses were unable to fully answer Senator Webb’s questions.
“How do you compare a Brigadier General from one service to another?” Senator Webb continued. “Who does that?”

“Fair question, sir,” answered Vice Admiral Gortney, director of the Joint Staff.

“That’s why we are having this hearing,” said Senator Webb.

In response to a similar question, Air Force General Philip M. Breedlove said, “I cannot tell you that it’s the Secretary of Defense. I just don’t know that answer. We need to get back to you on that.”

Noting there are 13 four-stars in the Air Force, 11 in the Army, 10 in the Navy and four in the Marine Corps, Senator Webb said, “The disparity in the number of four-star positions in the institutional forces also warrants examination.”

During an April 2010 Personnel Subcommittee hearing, Senator Webb asked the DoD for information on the number of generals and admirals in the military. The subcommittee later addressed issues associated with general and flag officers serving in the Judge Advocate Generals’ Corps in each branch of the armed services in a July 2011 hearing.

We don't need more Flag officers, Surely we don't need to revive the 5 star rank.

**gdmillar** · 07 Oct 11,, 00:14

Certainly wouldn't have thought so. 5* rank more or less became a ceremonial position here in the UK until it was phased out in the early 1990s (Officers who achieved 5* rank are still recognised as such in their retirement, and often Peerage). It was essentially another tier to which one became entitled to an even higher pay grade, in the UK we now have the Chief of the Defence Staff as a 4* who earns as a 5* would and is recognised in his appointment as effectively outranking the Chiefs of General, Air and Naval Staffs (also 4*)

As for ISAF in Afghanistan, a multinational force within NATO command structures. If you look at the on paper structure and distribution of components, you see that it is wholly appropriate for an Officer of 4* rank to have overal command. IMHO there is no scope for even entertaining the suggestion of a 5*rank.

The only way you could really even contemplate 5* ranks these days would be to look within the greater stucture of NATO as a uni-national entity. Even so, all senior Officers of their respective commands are usually 4* with a 3* deputy.

Chairman of NATO Military Committee
SACEUR
ACT
ACO etc etc

All 4* commands.

Don't get me wrong, I dare say that Admiral Di Paola, Admiral Stavridis, Général Abrial et al would welcome a resurgence of the 5* ranks; but I doubt it'll happen in this lifetime.

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