Thread: Somme

דגל 'שק!

The War to end all Wars.


RIP

Lest we forget.

May God bless them all and give them rest.

God Bless.

I know WW2 technically had more casualties, but there's something about the grinding trench battles of WW1 that (to me) easily make it the most horrific war of all time. The suffering and courage of the men on both sides is inconceivable. A toast...

I always thought through its long and glorious history one of the bright lights on the Crown's Army was the Somme. That it was a horrible, miserable blood bath is not in question. The Old Centemptables were gone after 1915 and the Kitchener's New army and the Pals Battalions were sorely put to the test. And despite the lapses in leadership and ability at the operational level, the Tommy did not break. That is a true testimony to heart and spirit of British Soldier...and for the Dominions no greater example than that showed by the Newfoundlanders.

The British Army emerged a much better force which learned its lessons, licked its wounds and stood firm.

As you all know, I always look through the lens of the American Civil War...I compare the will and spirit of the British army of the Somme with the American armies surrounding Petersburg in 64-65.

All honor to the fallen and to those who stood.

RIP.

the Somme was effectively the battle that ripped the heart out of the British Empire and British society. GB was never the same afterwards.

It's the sheer insanity of climbing out of the trenches and walking toward machine guns through coils of barbed wire. There's not even the notion of protecting your mens lives in that. It truly reduces them to walking statistics as Haig advanced his drinks cabinet 2 inches toward Berlin.

The greatest tragedy for Britain, France, Germany, and indeed my own country however was that we lost a generation of leaders; the young officers advancing with their men suffered far higher casualties as a proportion even compared to the men they lead.

pari,

It's the sheer insanity of climbing out of the trenches and walking toward machine guns through coils of barbed wire. There's not even the notion of protecting your mens lives in that

given the technology of the time and the poor training of the volunteers (there were too many, and plus most of the professional cadre had been killed in 1914-1915), there wasn't much choice.

From what I have read about Somme, it was a flaw in the plan.

The Allies dropped several thousand tons of shells into place. But the Brits had so many inaccurate gunners they were missing the German positions by far. Add the lack of heavy guns capable of doing proper penetration...

OTOH they were so sure there is not one single German alive, some of them were playing soccer on the no man's land.

RIP to the fine men who lost their lives in this tragedy.

There is a legend that says the high commands of both sides considered the number of men needed before the Maxims either overheated or simply were starved of ammo. And the artillery that was supposed to cut the barbed wire... didn't.

The whole thing is mind blowing. Military professionals today have a hard time wrapping their brains around the bull-headed single-mindedness of WW1-style frontal assault. Was maneuver warfare so alien a concept? Properly exploiting a gap, a weakness?

Here's a naive question... With effective control of the sea, why didn't the allies land forces well behind the front line on Continental Europe? Hit the Belgium coast abeam Brussels. Germans respond by pulling forces from the Ypres area, fatally weakening Germany's right flank. Would it have been Gallipoli all over again?

unqualified suggestion: The disaster of the Galipoli campaign might have a similar effect on the idea of large scale landings for the Allies in WWI like the battle of crete had on the Germans wrt Airbone assaults in WWII.

Originally Posted by Chogy

The whole thing is mind blowing. Military professionals today have a hard time wrapping their brains around the bull-headed single-mindedness of WW1-style frontal assault. Was maneuver warfare so alien a concept? Properly exploiting a gap, a weakness?

Here's a naive question... With effective control of the sea, why didn't the allies land forces well behind the front line on Continental Europe? Hit the Belgium coast abeam Brussels. Germans respond by pulling forces from the Ypres area, fatally weakening Germany's right flank. Would it have been Gallipoli all over again?

The problem is not realy to make a breach,the problem is the exploitation.Landing is inherently a complex operation and its unlikely that it would have had achieved anything before the German reserves show up.Than you have a worsened situation.

Brusilov,von Hutier,von Below etc... all managed to make breakthrough.They all got stuck when they outmarched their supplies while the enemy reserves arrived by rail.

Gallipoli was a potential war winner.Sadly the leadership for the Entente was so bad,while the Central Powers had some excellent officers on the spot.A commanders battle if there ever was one.