SAS Cpl Charged

**Albany Rifles** · 27 Jun 11,, 15:47

Originally Posted by Red Seven

I agree Rummy's a smarmy SOB but I'm not so sure this attitude started with Abu Gharib. It's been the media's mission (and the Left's) to sympathize with our poor, downtrodden enemies at the expense of our own troops for many, many years. LTC Phillips may have a job to do, but the job doesn't require him to make the unwarranted assumption that the majority of the public wants justice for "detainees" that get smacked. Where the hell did he come up with that? Is he pandering to the media as I suspect, lining himself up for a gig in private practice? He sounds like just another rear-in-the-gear, ass-in-the-back, lawyer officer with an embarrassing lack of knowledge about the combat environment.

1. Reference Abu Ghraib...American soldiers mistreated EPWs. That is a violation of the UCMJ, period. My comment about Rumsfeld was concerning force structure. The MPs on duty at AG were not MPs trained for running a prison...they were MPs intended to run convoy security and traffic contyrol. The rest of the 800th MP BDE was not mobilized, even though that was in the plan, because Rumsfeld did not want to mobilize them...its part of the entire mess he made abotu troop deployments.

2. I believe my point regarding LTC Phillips was the way the judge advocate general corps operates in most NATO militaries. A JAG officer rotates between the prosecutor and defender side during their career. When you serve as a defending attorney you work as hard as you can to get the best for your client. When you are a prosecutor you client is the government/Crown and you vigorously prosecute to the best of your ability. That is how our legal systems work...teh friction between the 2 sides is supposed to lead to lead to the truth. LTC Phillips may be accused of an overly vigorous application fo his prosecutorial powers but he was still within his responsibilities on his part.

The entire process is sordid, I agree. But that is the burden we bear as a Western democracy...we are supposed to hold ourselves to a higher standard. I am not saying the Corporal was wrong...but the full legal process helps show all that we apply the same standards to ourselves as we do to all. And AG has caused the Western miltaries to have to bend over backwards in these manners.

**dave lukins** · 27 Jun 11,, 19:39

I hope our soldiers have been instructed never to take chances with fleeing gunmen in future. My new instruction would be to fire two warning shots ...right through his head. 1. This will reduce terrorist 2. Save £thousands on pointless Court Martials of brave servicemen on the front line. 3. Stop the enemy laughing their socks off at the stupid British.

**Albany Rifles** · 27 Jun 11,, 21:27

Originally Posted by dave lukins

I hope our soldiers have been instructed never to take chances with fleeing gunmen in future. My new instruction would be to fire two warning shots ...right through his head. 1. This will reduce terrorist 2. Save £thousands on pointless Court Martials of brave servicemen on the front line. 3. Stop the enemy laughing their socks off at the stupid British.

Dave,

You are quite right.

The problem in this whole issue began with the obviously ambiguous guidance given to the Red Caps by the operational chain of command.

As we know, Soldiers don't act liek asshats on their own...it usual;ly comes as a result from on high.

**dave lukins** · 27 Jun 11,, 22:33

Originally Posted by Albany Rifles

Dave,

You are quite right.

The problem in this whole issue began with the obviously ambiguous guidance given to the Red Caps by the operational chain of command.

As we know, Soldiers don't act liek asshats on their own...it usual;ly comes as a result from on high.

Quite right AR. All redcaps should be made to dig trenches all around Camp Bastion, cut the grass in Lashkar Gah with scissors then to lick the boots clean of all the returning forces.

Seriously, someone took his guidance too literal and didn't use any sense he was born with. He should have been told that there is a war going on and people are getting killed by the likes of this terrorist complainant. For the life of me I still can't see how it got as far as a Court Martial as they are usually the last option open to a Commanding Officer unless the offence is deemed very serious.

**USSWisconsin** · 27 Jun 11,, 22:51

Originally Posted by dave lukins

I hope our soldiers have been instructed never to take chances with fleeing gunmen in future. My new instruction would be to fire two warning shots ...right through his head. 1. This will reduce terrorist 2. Save £thousands on pointless Court Martials of brave servicemen on the front line. 3. Stop the enemy laughing their socks off at the stupid British.

Three warning shots, Special Mozambique drill, first one in the groin, second one in the belly and the last one in the throat. All with .338 Lapuda OTM.

"Give us the tools and we'll do the job"

They have plenty of tools - one of them is called Lt Col Phillips - he's even named after a screwdriver

**Red Seven** · 29 Jun 11,, 12:34

Originally Posted by Albany Rifles

1. Reference Abu Ghraib...American soldiers mistreated EPWs. That is a violation of the UCMJ, period. My comment about Rumsfeld was concerning force structure. The MPs on duty at AG were not MPs trained for running a prison...they were MPs intended to run convoy security and traffic contyrol. The rest of the 800th MP BDE was not mobilized, even though that was in the plan, because Rumsfeld did not want to mobilize them...its part of the entire mess he made abotu troop deployments.

2. I believe my point regarding LTC Phillips was the way the judge advocate general corps operates in most NATO militaries. A JAG officer rotates between the prosecutor and defender side during their career. When you serve as a defending attorney you work as hard as you can to get the best for your client. When you are a prosecutor you client is the government/Crown and you vigorously prosecute to the best of your ability. That is how our legal systems work...teh friction between the 2 sides is supposed to lead to lead to the truth. LTC Phillips may be accused of an overly vigorous application fo his prosecutorial powers but he was still within his responsibilities on his part.

The entire process is sordid, I agree. But that is the burden we bear as a Western democracy...we are supposed to hold ourselves to a higher standard. I am not saying the Corporal was wrong...but the full legal process helps show all that we apply the same standards to ourselves as we do to all. And AG has caused the Western miltaries to have to bend over backwards in these manners.

You just answered an opinionated ground-pounder/sea lawyer rant with hard facts. Never a good mix.

**Albany Rifles** · 29 Jun 11,, 13:38

Originally Posted by Red Seven

You just answered an opinionated ground-pounder/sea lawyer rant with hard facts. Never a good mix.

Sorry, Dude! Didn't mean to harsh your mellow!

**dave lukins** · 29 Jun 11,, 16:09

Originally Posted by USSWisconsin

They have plenty of tools - one of them is called Lt Col Phillips - he's even named after a screwdriver

I'm going to have to plagiarize that on Wisc

**rickshaw92** · 02 Jul 11,, 21:27

They must be pissin their pants laughing

The taliban wear pants?

**sourkraut115** · 08 Aug 11,, 01:25

It's sad that all of this... prosecution for doing your duty under harsh conditions and being one of the proverbial "rough men" that keep our democracies safe... is old hat to every street cop in the free world. Even sadder that it is now something our soldiers have to be saddled with as well. The process IS sordid, and I think we could come up with a better review system in which a use of force does not require a misapplied legal prosecution to be considered "legitimate"... except that the legal system itself is often simply a vehicle for political advancement, in which soldiers and cops are just pawns in the Great Game.