WOW Awesome , 3 hours supposedly clinically dead ,, then claims he spoke to his gran ??thing is tho , was this straight after he passed out or sometime later , who knows , but if straight after maybe the mind was preparing him and releasing certain chemicals , ?????????????
A three-year-old boy brought back from the dead after his heart stopped beating for three hours has told how he saw his great-grandmother in Heaven.
The youngster - who is named only as Paul - claimed he met his relative and she sent him back to Earth.
Paul was playing on his own when he fell into a lake near his grandparents' house in the town of Lychen, north of Berlin, Germany.
The child's grandfather later found him lifeless in the water.
Paul was quickly dragged to the shore but the youngster remained unconscious.
His father, who had had first aid training in the past, tried to resuscitate his son by giving him mouth to mouth and heart massage.
A helicopter took him to Helios hospital in Buch and doctors also tried to resuscitate him but he was unresponsive.
They were about to stop because the boy had been clinically dead for three hours and 18 minutes - but then a miracle happened.
The team managed to get his heart beating again, defying the laws of medicine.
The water in the lake was cold and the boy's core temperature was just 28C - it should normally be 37C.
If the temperature had been higher, the team would have stopped trying to resuscitate after 40 minutes because the boy would definitely have been brain dead.
Cold temperatures means the metabolism slows so body can survive with little oxygen.
Professor of Paediatrics, Lothar Schweigerer, is from the Helios hospital in Buch.
He told Sky News: "My doctors were close to saying 'we can do no more' after two hours of thorax compression.
He said this was "because the chances of survival had gone and the little lad must have been brain dead".
The professor added: "But then suddenly his heart started to beat again ... it was a fantastic miracle.
"I've been doing this job for 30 years and have never seen anything like this.
"It goes to show the human body is a very resilient organism and you should never give up. The boy is happy and healthy. It's a wonderful thing."
He told daily newspaper Bild: "Paul said to his parents, 'I was with Oma (granny) Emmi in Heaven. She told me to go back really quickly.
Last edited by tankie; 18 Apr 10, at 15:20.
TANKIE.
Good for the boy and his family. The so-called "mammalian dive reflex" comes through again.
I've always been fascinated by the NDE phenomenon. There's a web site that has compiled thousands of them. Interesting reading:
Near-Death Experiences and the Afterlife
Great link chogy , i am going to buy the book from R Moody , i havent heard of him before but the extracts i have read are impressive , cheers .
TANKIE.
Good call on the Mammalian dive reflex, but woefully off on the website for near-death experiences.Originally Posted by Chogy
NDE is just the brain scrambling with what info it got from life experience, and attempts to utilize it for survival. Nothing spiritual has been scientifically documented about this.
Would be hard to scientifically prove anything spiritual don't you think.
Extraordinary claims requires Extraordinary evidence.
Jumping the gun and saying its spiritual or any other fantastical claims is never good.
Why not, there is nothing wrong with faith.
I'm not religious or anything like that but to just dismiss something like this that you can't possibly understand is pretty arrogant. The universe is infinite both in space and time so who's to say there isn't something after this life. To say that it would be impossible and that there is no way that a near death experience where you are on the brink can't be possible is pretty limited thinking.
I wasn't advocating anything, simply linking a site that has done a lot of leg work on the NDE phenomenon. Whatever it is, spritual or not, it appears to be quite real, and is a fascinating thing.
It is very wrong to have faith, as faith is belief without evidence.
Is it ok for me to believe babies came from storks and start telling those who don't know that it is as fact?
Of course not!
NDE has been done to the death, those who experience NDE will typically see/remember what they believe. If they believe in Hinduism, then what they experience will typically corrolate to that, and same goes for Christians, Atheists, etc.
Inorder for someone to conclusively put Spirituality into the theory behind NDE, one would need testable, repeatable, and Supportive non-contradictory evidence. Having completely inconsistant experiences is simply evidence against spirituality, and for the theory of brain scrambling to survive.
Why can't we possibly understand this? Especially when we DO understand this. NDE has been studied numerous times, and the Exact Same experience can be summoned, as the theory predicted, by starvation of Brain, such as pulling High G's in fighter jets or centrofuge.I'm not religious or anything like that but to just dismiss something like this that you can't possibly understand is pretty arrogant
Pilots experience these things are able to find bizzare but expected similarities to those who are brought from the 'dead', and yet, the pilots were not even close to death. Was it a mistake done by the heavens for taking the person in too early?
Ignoratio elenchiThe universe is infinite both in space and time so who's to say there isn't something after this life
The idea of Afterlife has never been shown to be even plausible as no such evidence of brain function to continue or transits into another world.
If no evidence supports it, why should it be taken as real?
There are no evidence of Unicorns, Ogres, Flying Speghetti Monsters, so should they be given the faith defense too?
One case, with vague details, out of hundreds of thousands of other cases with completely wrong details.it appears to be quite real, and is a fascinating thing.
One is bound to get it right somewhat by sheer chance alone.
P & T does this well
Even Einstein believed in something mate.
The most beautiful and most profound experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead. To know that what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their primitive forms - this knowledge, this feeling is at the center of true religiousness.
( Albert Einstein - The Merging of Spirit and Science)
Last edited by Repatriated Canuck; 12 May 10, at 05:52.
Have you ever studied Steven Hawkin's Imagined Time ... or imginary numbers, ie the square root of negative one? Science has come up with far more faith based systems than religion could ever could
Chimo
Imaginary numbers do exist, and have mathematical proofs and uses. This infact can be validated to exist. There is nothing about it that requires faith.
As for Einstein, it matters not what HE himself believes, but rather what the scientific community acknowledges
Even so, Eistein's public image maintained to be a faithful one, but he is infact an Agnostic, behind the public image.
"From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.... I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our being."
You're kidding me? How can something that is imaginary be validated to exist? Imaginary Time was a concept Steven Hawkins popularized. He himself stated that it solved a lot of equations but without a basis outside of math. In other words, we put faith that the equations hold despite the lack of real observable proofs.
Chimo
Imaginary is merely the name, it doesn't mean the number is not real.
Wikipedia explains this quite well.
For most human tasks, real numbers (or even rational numbers) offer an adequate description of data. Fractions such as ⅔ and ⅛ are meaningless to a person counting stones, but essential to a person comparing the sizes of different collections of stones. Negative numbers such as −3 and −5 are meaningless when measuring the mass of an object, but essential when keeping track of monetary debits and credits[1]. Similarly, imaginary numbers have essential concrete applications in a variety of sciences and related areas such as signal processing, control theory, electromagnetism, quantum mechanics, cartography, vibration analysis, and many others.
In electrical engineering, for example, the voltage produced by a battery is characterized by one real number (called potential), such as +12 volts or −12 volts. But the "AC" voltage in a home requires two parameters. One is a potential, such as 120 volts, and the other is an angle (called phase). The voltage is said to have two dimensions. A 2-dimensional quantity can be represented mathematically as either a vector or as a complex number (known in the engineering context as phasor). In the vector representation, the rectangular coordinates are typically referred to simply as X and Y. But in the complex number representation, the same components are referred to as real and imaginary. When the complex number is purely imaginary, such as a real part of 0 and an imaginary part of 120, it means the voltage has a potential of 120 volts and a phase of 90°, which is physically very real
You don't get it. When something doesn't make sense mathematically, they went and invent imaginary systems to make the math work. Imaginary time is but one example. We take it on faith that these equations work because there is no way for any of us to even experience imaginary time.
Chimo
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