Charlie Brown
B17 , one engine dead, tail, horizontal stabilizer and nose shot up. It was ready to fall out of the sky. Then realize that there is a German ME-109 fighter flying next to it. Now read the story below. I think you'll be surprised...
Charlie Brown was a B-17 Flying Fortress pilot with the 379th Bomber Group at Kimbolton , England . His B-17 was called 'Ye Old Pub' and was in a terrible state, having been hit by flak and fighters. The compass was damaged and they were flying deeper over enemy territory instead of heading home to Kimbolton.
After flying over an enemy airfield, a German pilot named Franz Steigler was ordered to take off and shoot down the B-17. When he got near the B-17, he could not believe his eyes. In his words, he 'had never seen a plane in such a bad state'. The tail and rear section was severely damaged, and the tail gunner wounded. The top gunner was all over the top of the fuselage. The nose was smashed and there were holes everywhere.
Despite having ammunition, Franz flew to the side of the B-17 and looked at Charlie Brown, the pilot. Brown was scared and struggling to control his damaged and blood-stained plane.
Aware that they had no idea where they were going, Franz waved at Charlie to turn 180 degrees. Franz escorted and guided the stricken plane to, and slightly over, the North Sea towards England . He then saluted Charlie Brown and turned away, back to Europe .
When Franz landed he told the CO that the plane had been shot down over the sea, and never told the truth to anybody. Charlie Brown and the remains of his crew told all at their briefing, but were ordered never to talk about it.
More than 40 years later, Charlie Brown wanted to find the Luftwaffe pilot who saved the crew. After years of research, Franz was found. He had never talked about the incident, not even at post-war reunions.
They met in the USA at a 379th Bomber Group reunion, together with 25 people who are alive now - all because Franz never fired his guns that day.
Research shows that Charlie Brown lived in Seattle and Franz Steigler had moved to Vancouver , BC after the war. When they finally met, they discovered they had lived less than 200 miles apart for the past 50 years!
THIS WAS BACK IN THE DAYS WHEN THERE WAS HONOR IN BEING A WARRIOR. THEY PROUDLY WORE UNIFORMS, AND THEY DIDN'T HIDE IN AMBUSH INSIDE A MOSQUE, OR BEHIND WOMEN AND CHILDREN, NOR DID THEY USE MENTALLY RETARDED WOMEN AS SUICIDE BOMBERS TO TARGET AND KILL INNOCENT CIVILIANS.
"When England was a kingdom, we had a king.
When we were an empire, we had an emperor.
Now we're a country
That is a magnificent and emotional tale. Stories of impromptu acts of mercy and chivalry in war are fascinating, because sadly they are quite rare, and becoming moreso.
The interactions of the Luftwaffe with the Western Allies (U.K., U.S.A, Canada) was very different from their fight with the USSR. On the Eastern front, it was tooth and nail, to the death, gunning men under a parachute canopy, etc. In the West, you had acts like this, on both sides.
Thank you for sharing it.
Your welcome , i shared it and added nothing or took anything away , its as i got it sent to me , however there was pics of the incident and the b17 was really shot up , and im buggered if i know how to attach the whole post.Originally Posted by Chogy
"When England was a kingdom, we had a king.
When we were an empire, we had an emperor.
Now we're a country
THIS WAS BACK IN THE DAYS WHEN THERE WAS HONOR IN BEING A WARRIOR. THEY PROUDLY WORE UNIFORMS, AND THEY DIDN'T HIDE IN AMBUSH INSIDE A MOSQUE, OR BEHIND WOMEN AND CHILDREN, NOR DID THEY USE MENTALLY RETARDED WOMEN AS SUICIDE BOMBERS TO TARGET AND KILL INNOCENT CIVILIANS.
Sad.....but true
If this is true, why such a difference?
Very interesting story by the way
Last edited by diablo49; 03 May 09, at 22:43.
robert,
all relative, of course. the SS didn't blink at killing prisoners, and we reciprocated. both sides used false uniforms. the germans and japanese certainly didn't blink at rounding up and killing people in industrial carload lots.Sad.....but true
in fact, i'd say WWII is a good demonstration of how brutal democracies can be. modern terrorists have got nothing on the US or any of the other combatants back then in terms of atrocities and brutality.
The human mind cannot grasp the causes of phenomena in the aggregate. But the need to find these causes is inherent in man’s soul. And the human intellect, without investigating the multiplicity and complexity of the conditions of phenomena, any one of which taken separately may seem to be the cause, snatches at the first, the most intelligible approximation to a cause, and says: “This is the cause!"
-Leo Tolstoy
War and Peace
diablo,
to the germans, russians were untermenschen- subhuman.If this is true, why such a difference?
The human mind cannot grasp the causes of phenomena in the aggregate. But the need to find these causes is inherent in man’s soul. And the human intellect, without investigating the multiplicity and complexity of the conditions of phenomena, any one of which taken separately may seem to be the cause, snatches at the first, the most intelligible approximation to a cause, and says: “This is the cause!"
-Leo Tolstoy
War and Peace
I suppose in your idealistic vision of the past they didn't strip their POWs naked and make them form human pyramids. Sometimes the cruelty goes both ways mate. People are never going to trust us unless they see that we're impartial, which I'm afraid right now we're not.
Also this was the same war where we deliberately carpet bombed residential suburbs to terrorize the enemy civilian population into pressing for peace, and of course there was the whole "Nazi" thing on the other side.
Nobody said war was a knitting circle and many things are done by all sides. Sometimes we have a 'lull' in the killing stakes and we may have a game of football, as we did in the trench war of WW1, or the gentlemans Air war where pilots saluted each other then shot each other out of the sky. Sadly being Gentlemen don't win wars so we have reverted to a time where dog eats dog.
PS.Location: Amidst the rolling hills of merry England. I'd like to see that go from the rolling hills to the 'walks' on the Brecons
Last edited by dave lukins; 04 May 09, at 00:50.
I think the german pilot become emotional and what he did was actually criminal while understandable. The B-17 was certainly a valid target and I don't think the men who they just blew up to pieces before they got hit would approve the chivalry of the said pilot. War is not a sports match that you can win with style and dignity but a bloody carnage where you fight for survival. The very notion that war can be dignified and honorable is wrong IMO.
Being a Soldier is a noble Art.
i believe pilots all over the world have a non-spoken understanding between eachother coming from their ancestors of WW1, real knights of the sky - without parachute.
but like everything else i think it is also becoming more synthetic days by days.
Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.
Spoonman ,, i didnt dictate the story , i only forwarded it on which i thought was interesting ,as do others , its about a MAN showing some clemency and mercy towards another MAN on opposite sides of a conflict , a bit like the football game on xmas day in the trenches , and should not be confused with the whole scenario of the 2nd WW , A totally honorable act , which could have seen the German executed for failing to carry out orders .
"When England was a kingdom, we had a king.
When we were an empire, we had an emperor.
Now we're a country
So its gun em down regardless huh ? thats a bit like shooting a rabbit on its seat , the B17 was hardly flyable , the pilot was struggling to keep it in the air , i would like to shake that German mans hand for his Honor(and maybe present him with a bottle of Ooe,s finest ).In the Falklands an Argy and a Brit pilot were in a dogfight of which there was no winner ( i cant remember the full story ) but they both survived and are now the best of friends who met after the conflict and have remained friends , now you have your opinion that war can not be dignified , ok , but it can have honor as is shown in the original post . .
A question for you ,, have you ever been in a fist fight which you were victorious ?? I have reasons for asking this .
Have a good day
Last edited by tankie; 04 May 09, at 11:24.
"When England was a kingdom, we had a king.
When we were an empire, we had an emperor.
Now we're a country
Yes sir I have been in a fistfight before and was actually victorious. I fought with two of my classmates and also after our fight become close friends with them for rest of our school life. However during the fight neither side were actually trying to kill each other unlike a real war. IMO honour is keeping ones word and doing ones duty so shooting an enemy bomber despite how badly it is damaged seems the honorable thing to do. On the other hand I am happy to see that after the war at least some of the veterans are able to reconcile and go on with their lifes.
Last edited by TTL; 04 May 09, at 11:56.
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