Thread: Honor amongst enemies

Beg all you want David your not getting it , that piece of vermin is not what you can class as a soldier , i note the particular style of uniform , it aint a limey , yank , canook, frog, etc etc ,now where could he be from ,and from which war??? He is a murderer and as such has no right to the title soldier , soldiers do what they have to do to win fights / battles / wars / and that cnut doesnt come into it , yes attrocities happened , cant do anything about that except learn , and maybe , JUST maybe ,the woman in that foto was a spy ,or had conspired to kill his mates ,,hardly likely but, who knows ??? however as i say , good to know that there were honorable men and women in , and still are in wars , and one bad apple does not make up for the good ones as hopefully they get weeded out of the Barrel ,and i will reiterate , I DID NOT COMPOSE THAT MSG , I MERELY PASTED AND COPIED IT FOR THE INTEREST AND TO SHOW THERE ARE STILL HONORABLE PEOPLE IN WAR , AND PEACE.

Originally Posted by TTL

Well sir I hurled the one who was sitting on my back over the desks of our painting class and exchanged a few blows with the other before they sepated us as I remember. And yes I would not leave them there bleeding to death if it had come to that but as I said before this was not my intention at the first place unlike it would be in a real war.



This seems to be the main part I disagree with you since killing is what the war is all about. Every tactic - weapon used in warfare is desinged to kill or demoralize the enemy by threat of death. Soldiers surrender only because there is no other choice but death, even diplomacy is grossly dependend on force projection.

1st Sorry im afraid you were in a war as your actions prove , you wanted to win , you did , you then qoute you would not have left them bleeding to death ,, thank you for that , very honorable of you , same as the German ?

2nd Yes killing the enemy military , and some times civvies get caught in it ,is a Major part of war , But its not ALL about killing , WAR is about occupying territory , not just killing , there are other ways in which wars are won , you are correct about about demoralizing them , so therefore it isnt TOTALY neccasary to kill kill kill ,after all where would the labor come from to rebuild newly acquired land , but now you have answered my Q ref your :skirmish: i see you had the honor to become friends and do the honorable thing of not kicking them when down , once again Neither did the German , he considered the job was done , and it was , i dont know if he flew again after that , so another job done , without killing , but yes war is a dirty bizz and you have to get the job done , i still say good on the pilot , which is what this thread is about that i posted .

I believe this sort of thing happened more among flyers than it did anywhere else. I talked to several friends who downed MiGs in GW1, and every one of them said something like this: "It was the machine I was defeating, not the man. Only later did I think about the man." Perhaps in this case, the Me pilot initially looked at the helpless B-17, felt pity, and then realized the human cost as well.

I find it a bit silly that people feel the need to post pics of an SS man, or bring up counter-examples of people in uniform doing awful things, as if that somehow negates the act of this one man. Of course you'll find examples of the terrible... my god, it's war. That is why acts of mercy in the heat of combat are so unusual, and so treasured.

Originally Posted by Chogy

I believe this sort of thing happened more among flyers than it did anywhere else. I talked to several friends who downed MiGs in GW1, and every one of them said something like this: "It was the machine I was defeating, not the man. Only later did I think about the man." Perhaps in this case, the Me pilot initially looked at the helpless B-17, felt pity, and then realized the human cost as well.

I find it a bit silly that people feel the need to post pics of an SS man, or bring up counter-examples of people in uniform doing awful things, as if that somehow negates the act of this one man. Of course you'll find examples of the terrible... my god, it's war. That is why acts of mercy in the heat of combat are so unusual, and so treasured.

Originally Posted by tankie

Beg all you want David your not getting it , that piece of vermin is not what you can class as a soldier

...He's got a uniform, he's got a weapon, he (presumably) fights as part of an organised body of men... what more do you want?

Fan of the No True Scotsman Fallacy eh?

In your original CAPITALISED RANT you ranted about the quality of today's opponents of ours. To whom are you comparing them if not WWII Axis, considering that was the timespan of your original story?

Originally Posted by Chogy

I find it a bit silly that people feel the need to post pics of an SS man, or bring up counter-examples of people in uniform doing awful things, as if that somehow negates the act of this one man.

Sorry but you've misread things, it wasn't a reply to the story, it was a reply to tankie's implicit assertion that today's warfare is without honour / or less than before. I'm a member of the younger generation and I take umbrage at being constantly told about the good ol' days... not least because it doesn't have any basis in reality. IIRC tankie isn't even a member of the Greatest Generation either.

A final point about honour - honour to what end? Is a German Ace who wines and dines his captured opponents more honourable than a ditzy RAF postal worker in Kandahar Airfield, who doesn't wear her body armour lest it spoil her tan? (see recent Ch5 doc "Warzone")

What is the point of war - to follow a set of rules and be a gentleman, or achieve a worthwhile objective while minimising loss of life? If the former, then war is a sport.

Originally Posted by HistoricalDavid

...He's got a uniform, he's got a weapon, he (presumably) fights as part of an organised body of men... what more do you want?

Fan of the No True Scotsman Fallacy eh?

In your original CAPITALISED RANT you ranted about the quality of today's opponents of ours. To whom are you comparing them if not WWII Axis, considering that was the timespan of your original story?



Sorry but you've misread things, it wasn't a reply to the story, it was a reply to tankie's implicit assertion that today's warfare is without honour / or less than before. I'm a member of the younger generation and I take umbrage at being constantly told about the good ol' days... not least because it doesn't have any basis in reality. IIRC tankie isn't even a member of the Greatest Generation either.

A final point about honour - honour to what end? Is a German Ace who wines and dines his captured opponents more honourable than a ditzy RAF postal worker in Kandahar Airfield, who doesn't wear her body armour lest it spoil her tan? (see recent Ch5 doc "Warzone")

What is the point of war - to follow a set of rules and be a gentleman, or achieve a worthwhile objective while minimising loss of life? If the former, then war is a sport.

Its obvious you aint never been in a uniform David , and i havent had a rant i was pointing out the honorable way in which the German conducted himself ,, because you see not every Military person is evil , and that BASTARD in your foto , yes he has a weapon ,,the woman doesnt ,,yea he has a uniform ,, the womand does as well which is clearly obvious , she was a non combatant ,,(unless like i said earlier ) oops let me explain what one of them is ,, a person who does not get involved in battles , she was presumably murdered so dont try to take the moral high ground with one poxy foto of an SS man . I think the German pilot was very honorable in his actions which is what the thread is about . Do you think he did the honorable thing or not ,if you do lets hear your reasons AND NOT COUNTER THE POST WITH A FOTO OF AN ATROCITY . and war is not a sport , some people tend to think that tho , out of touch Generals in WW1. After earlier discussions with you i reckon you have a problem with the military ,, dont get me wrong , i would have done my job to the best of my ability if called upon ALONG WITH THE REST OF THE FAMILY , and i was called upon .Now keep on topic , do you think he did the honorable thing .And you can beg my pardon all you want Mr , you aint getting it , not now not ever for this thread , And WTF has channel 5 got to do with this ,, which incidently , i didnt see , so i havent got a clue what you are talking about ? Whatever it is start a new thread and we can discuss it there .

Edit .

If you think they were the good old days you are sadly misinformed , they were terrible times which makes this story all the better ..

ps David , i was a member of the best generation , the 60s music revolution , and if it wasnt for members of the BEST GENERATION , your selfish generation wouldnt exist ,,now grow up.

Good story Tankie, True gentlemen.

True story. I'd be honoured to shake his hand aswell, and give a standing ovation if I was ever in the presence of hearing that story.

Sadly, there's not alot of gentlemen like that out there.

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

Good story Tankie, True gentlemen.

Exactly Dreads .

It's a very fine line between honour and disgrace. Mongol and Viking warriors were certainly without fear beyond doubt but they just as soon put women and children to the knife as well slidding the throats of their enemies both armed and disarmed.

Knights might hold the bible up high but they often joined their Islamic enemies in raiding caravans as much as fighting them.

In this case, it's a nice story but there are hidden facts. That bomber has dropped bombs on women and children and while this Luftwaffle pilot may have let this plane go, he certainly have more than a few kills to his credit and those he downed with no mercy.

Take this story for what it is. A good gesture between men who has done their worst.

iirc in 70's usn stole drowned russian sub right under the noses of ussr navy fleet, later usn removed killed submariners, gave them proper burrial, (with soviet flags...ect), than many years later when the fact that us grabbed the sub wasn,t a secret any longer, they send the tape of the ceremony to moskow.

THIS WAS BACK IN THE DAYS WHEN THERE WAS HONOR IN BEING A WARRIOR. THEY PROUDLY WORE UNIFORMS, AND THEY DIDN'T HIDE IN AMBUSH INSIDE A MOSQUE, OR BEHIND WOMEN AND CHILDREN, NOR DID THEY USE MENTALLY RETARDED WOMEN AS SUICIDE BOMBERS TO TARGET AND KILL INNOCENT CIVILIANS.

Other than the uniform thing (even then good luck) I would imagine things were much worse in pre modern times. Allied armored columns did not go to town raping and pillaging on the way to Baghdad, nor are modern armies feeding themselves off local supplies; as for partisans and terrorists that always happened. Treatment of civilians in western armies is far better then it used to be.

The WW-2 generation leveled cities, slaughtered millions, murdered prisoners, and still was full of people who fought without uniforms.