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#1 (permalink) |
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Military Professional
Staff Emeritus Scotch taster |
Question - What do Americans want of the CF?
As I read this forum, there are two minds of the Canadian Forces that seemed to be held by the Americans.
1) We don't spend enough on defence. 2) What we do spend produces some of the best soldiers, sailors, and airmen on earth. Allow me to laid the foundation of this question. Canada is protected by 3 oceans which is a far more effective defence than anything the US can provide. Statements such as Canada would be invaded by Norway if it were not for the US ignores fundamental defence situations. Any force the Chinese, Russians, Indians, Pakistanis, Israelis, Norweigans would able to land on Canadian soil would be wiped out within the day. That is just a simple fact of insufficent logistics. Thus, the CF is an expeditionary force. Under the 1994 White Paper, Canada would provide a naval warship, a battalion group, and/or a fighter squadron within 7 days. Within 30 days, this would be expanded to a naval task group, 3 battle groups or a brigade (defined as 3 infantry battalions, 1 armoured battalion-size regiment, 1 artillery battalion-sized regiment, 1 engineer battalion-sized regiment, and a combat service battalion), and/or an air wing. Where do you Americans want us to spend more money on? What do you want us to do? Please take into account our population size. Fielding an peacetime army of 1 million strong is just not realistic.
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Chimo Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 12-16-2004 at 11:44 AM.. |
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#2 (permalink) |
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New Member
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"Statements such as Canada would be invaded by Norway if it were not for the US ignores fundamental defence situations. Any force the Chinese, Russians, Indians, Pakistanis, Israelis, Norweigans would able to land on Canadian soil would be wiped out within the day. That is just a simple fact of insufficent logistics."
The same is true for the US, yet here we sit with a 2 million strong armed forces. And BTW, during the cold war the US did protect Canada's airspace.
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#3 (permalink) |
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Lord High Hullabalooster
Senior Contributor
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Semi-silly answer:
Build a force of logistics and transport since our procurement folks don't think they are sexy enough for consideration. Plus, think if the fun you could have when one of us Yanks gets all "Hey man, Canada is like totally wimpy and you'd all be speaking Tagalog if it wasn't for us!" and you can simply say "Shut up and don't bother the driver or I'll take your butt back home." Serious answer: I would like to see at least a doubling of Canadian Defense spending, but I believe it would be best spent in terms of a) keeping Canada's coasts secure, and b) maintaining the specialist expeditionary forces you do well (in addition to the actual defense needs for the nation). If we are agreed that Canada cannot/will not maintain a large standing army, then I think that maintaining a strong specialist force that you are willing to use is the right way to go. The other half of the question is whether the political will to use such a force when needed is present. No one will care how you spend your defence money if your forces aren't used when needed. The EU faces the same question. -dale Last edited by dalem; 12-16-2004 at 13:30 PM.. |
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#4 (permalink) | ||
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Military Professional
Staff Emeritus Scotch taster |
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#5 (permalink) | ||
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Military Professional
Staff Emeritus Scotch taster |
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#6 (permalink) | ||
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Lord High Hullabalooster
Senior Contributor
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Expanding ground forces to a full division, or 3 brigades, or whatever the best arrangement is, seems to make sense to me, but again, I'd rather see 2 brigades that "worked" and could rotate back and forth for each other, than 3 brigades that look good on paper. With the Leopards gone and no intent to replace them, I think that automatically refocuses Canadian ground force strengths into areas of security and SOF. Quote:
-dale |
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#7 (permalink) | |
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Military Enthusiast
Senior Contributor
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Since I am now an American citizen, what we want is more brigades with the ability to transport themselves. Meaning, when you get another brigade, you gotta get more transport planes. If not more brigades, then hell, just more transport planes will do the job. Believe me, you will end doing the Americans a very big favor. The problem with American forces is not the lack of combat power. We got enough of it. But, we don't have enough transports. Hell, if you just get rid of all the combat planes and just buy like around 200 C-5 planes. We'd be happy to guard your airspace without any charge and won't complain in exchange for the rights to use those transport planes. Transport planes are the key. |
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#9 (permalink) |
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Military Professional
Staff Emeritus Scotch taster |
Well, for your requests, I have some good news.
The naval repleminishment ship is well on its way. There's a debate whether or not to add a ski ramp (for obvious reasons). The C-130J, the latest workhorse is going through as scheduled. Expecting the contract to be announced sometime in 2006. Talks are under way with both the USAF and EUROCORPs to jointly buy either the C-17s or the A400Ms respectively. Canada wants to pay 20% of the cost of a fleet to be used 20% of the time for Canadian needs. Right now, the USAF seems to be winning the budget proposal since politics is interfering with EUROCORP's A400M buy. Land Force currently has 3 medium brigades being transformed into a medium brigade and two light brigades. Prime Minister Martin in his throne speech has stated the creation of a peacekeeping brigade. However, the TOE and monies have yet to be decided. The future role for Canadian Land Force is recee-by-force. Maritme Command current big projects are the Sea King replacement program and the VICTORIA (former UPHOLDER) subs. Air Command is involved in the JSF talks. However, all this is going on with the current budgets. I like to see Foreign Affairs start paying operational costs instead of us raiding the capital budgets which has had dired effects. Trucks were maintained well past their prime such as the ill fated Iltis fiasco. So, we are doing what you want. What more do you want? |
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#10 (permalink) |
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Staff Emeritus
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I don't think I have any problems with the CF.
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No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry |
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#13 (permalink) | |
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Military Professional
Staff Emeritus Scotch taster |
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5 C-17s or 8 A400M will deliver a battle group into theatre. The USAF might be able to deliver a SBCT in 48 hours if they scrounge up every plane they've got. There is no other choice to deliver a disvision other than sea lift. The USArmy is again reliant on pre-positioning. However, there is very little room to pre-position anything in Asia and none in Africa. |
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#14 (permalink) | |
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Military Enthusiast
Senior Contributor
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