Officer of Engineers

Wrong!

We need a military because the US needs a Canadian military. If for no other reason than to share the political responsibility.

FYI, Canada historically has taken a far more leadership role than the US. We were in WWI and WWII alot earlier than the Americans. We're the 2nd most deployed army in NATO, the 1st being the UK.

It is not that the US is incapable of taking the leadership role but that Canada has taken more the risk in doing so.

__________________
Chimo

dalem

Thank you Canada! And Australia and everyone else, but for this thread -

Go Canada!

-dale

FlyingCaddy

I agree with you it would be ridiculous for Canada to maintain a 1 million man force with only a population of 30 million, I am not certain how large the Norwegian Army is but its probably similar in size to Canada's. A nations Military size has to be considered by population not land mass. But I do think if the US didnt own Alaska and control Greenland, Canada would need a larger navy and army force to be on watch in the Territories, especially in the ever so limited Summer and Spring. Some psycho Sweed could launch an Operation Barbarossa and make a mad dash for Ottawa. Not saying it would succeed but it would be better to repell them at the beaches or in the sea then to wait for General WInter to attack.

Officer of Engineers

The permenant ice pack does wonders to any army (both defender and attacker).

FlyingCaddy

Dont you mean it entered WWI and WWII becasue of its responsibilites as a dominion of the British Empire. And what do you mean the second most deployed nation in NATO I guess those bases in Germany and Italy are just there for decoration.

Officer of Engineers

Yes but as an equal, not as a subsesrvant.

I mean UNPROFOR, IFOR, SFOR, KFOR, UNAMIR, etc

Prairie Canuck

Good day to all!
I’ve been viewing this site for a few months now have found it informative with only the odd “off-balanced” comment. I can’t say I can contribute often but am more interested in the opinions of “experts”. I’ll still reserve my right to disagree and with that ….
You’ve asked what our neighbours would like of us but I believe we can make our own choices in determining what we need. A strong well equipped Force ready to react to whatever crisis arises would likely be satisfactory to our American “Buds”.
Here is my Layman’s analysis of what our forces need. Please feel free to dissect it..

CANADIAN NAVAL REQUIREMENTS

3 – Heavy Ice Breaker / frigate equipped / possible submarine AOR
2 – Medium sized Amphibious assault carriers with landing craft or hovercraft
4 – Medium sized AOLs (Halifax hull)
8 – Offshore Patrol Vessels, ice capable, 90m, 35+ kts, 40 crew max
4 - Long range arctic capable submarines
4 - Area Air Defense destroyers (Halifax hulled)
- Convert all to latest Aegis compatible systems
20 – Fast attack “river” patrol vessels, 40kts. 10 crew
- Port facilities
- New Arctic port

cost?
Additional Personnel? 4,000

CANADIAN AIR FORCE REQUIREMENTS

10 – Large Strategic Airlifters
20 – C-130 sized transports / arctic capable
10 – Long range Patrol Aircraft
10 – SAR patrol aircraft
10 – Arctic Patrol Aircraft / Twin Otter replacements
12 - Arctic based fighters
6 – Air to Air refuelers / arctic capable
20 – VSTOL aircraft
- sell off or trade “extra” CF 18s
- Develop or purchase “copter killer” aircraft

cost?
Additional Personnel? 2,000

CANADIAN ARMY REQUIREMENTS

1 – Permanent quick response arctic Battalion; infantry, artillery, light mechanized. Based in Churchill.
-Snowmobiles / 1 and 2 man
-Snow track type light LAVs
-Snow track based light artillery
-Snow tracked mobile air defense
- Convert all artillery to mobile based (M113s)
- Convert Rangers to combat capable reserves
- Re-establish Parachute battalion
- Sell off all but 30 Leopards,
- Develop or purchase fast attack tank killer LAVs
30 – Mine resistant vehicles
30 – Attack helicopters, 4 arctic capable
30 – Medium lift helicopters, air re-fuel capable, 5 arctic capable
- Double the ground logistics capability / defense
- Triple JTF / special forces

cost?
Additional Personnel? 3600

Officer of Engineers

Where are we going to get $100bil?

Prairie Canuck

My approach was to try to satisfy everyone's wish lists. Obviously it's too much for our budget (though we did spend 2 billion simply registering 25% of the firearms in this country), so make your cuts and lets see whats left..

Officer of Engineers

Well,

Realistically, we have the forces and policies already that can be realistically supported by Ottawa. We're not going to get $100bil. We're promised $20bil in 5 years but I'm expecting $17-18bil, $15bil bottom end.

We're at the end of this current procurement cycle and as a result, alot of our equipment simply do not measure up and nobody will want them. The Leo C2s got another 10 years of life left in them and even with storage, we have them for another 15 years on the outside before technology and simple wear and tear render them obsolete. Same kind of thing with the CF-18 fleet. They're going through a mid-life upgrade and those in storage will be used as parts. Nobody wants them at this point. At least, nobody we want or could sell to. We do not want nor are we allowed to sell to Vietnam.

So, basically, we have what we need to do the job right now.

However, I will make a comment about your army requirements.

We don't need an Artic bn. The Rangers are a fine force who could play wild goose chase with any invading force and then leave that force to die out on the ice pack.

As for the rest, just how much do you know of 1 Brigade and its plans?

Franco Lolan

What would Canadian response be if PRC started bombing ROC? imposed blockade? invaded?

If military, what actions would be undertaken?

Officer of Engineers

Our only possible military response would be a naval task group to support a USN CVBG.

Anon

i have yet to chime in with what i'd like to see of the CF.

A bde of modern tanks. Is that really that much to ask from one of the richest nations on earth?

Officer of Engineers

So do I but we're lacking designs in the 20-30 ton, 40 tops, range. Anything heavier than that and we get into lift issues.

Anon

So buy a transport ship too.

Jesus, it's not like you have the economy of Lithuania. Canda is a G7 nation. The problem is your 1%ish GDP defense spending, not lift issues.

Canada needs to step up to the plate and spend some money. I can guarantee that if the US wasn't the world power that it is that you'd have tanks and transports.

Canada gets a free ride because of her proximity to the US. Frankly, i find it highly annoying.