braindead

How common award is U.S. Bronze Star Medal ? And if it´s given to allies is it more political or military award?

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Shek

Braindead,

The BSM is not uncommon; the BSM with "V" device for valor is uncommon. I'll have to see I can come across any numbers for awards awarded during the GWOT.

http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/Aw...E%20STAR1.html

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Debbie

Shek, please correct me if I am wrong - but during Vietnam especially according to the Vets I've talked to, Bronze Stars were fairly commonplace. Doled out in so many numbers that receiving one really wasn't that big of a deal - any info on that please?

Shek

Debbie,

I can't speak smartly to the number of BSM's awarded in Vietnam, although I am of the same impression as you. I will state that the BSM is the combat equivalent to the Meritorious Service Medal, and so using that analogy, I wouldn't necessarily describe the BSM as being "over" awarded. However, you do end up with a slightly perverse result in that an Army Commendation Medal (the next lower award than the BSM) with a "V" device is actually a higher award in my mind, since it was awarded for specific events for going above and beyond in terms of bravery. Thus, there is quite a distinction for me between a BSM and a BSM with "V" device.

I hope that I cleared things up a bit, and didn't just muddy the waters.

Debbie

Shek

Perfect, thank you.

braindead

thank you , Shek . I asked because the estonian troops have been awarded 6 BSM-s during OIF , and that seems quite a lot for 1 light infantry platoon .

Shek

That seems to be consistent with what US platoons are walking away with. Now, if those are BSM's with "V" device, then the platoon obviously saw some very heavy fighting and acquitted themselves with the utmost distinction.

Ironduke

I've been told by a relative Vietnam vet that there are some instances in which the Bronze Star was used as an underaward, to avoid the publicity associated a medal such as a Silver Star (MAC V SOG).

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Debbie

I want to disagree here and please keep in mind I do not have a great background in this subject but will muddle through it from my perspective. In Vietnam service, the Silver Star from my understanding of Vets and medals during that era, weren't given alot of publicity as it was that a Silver Star awardment was normally given posthumously. The Bronze Star was never considered to be an underaward at any point and some men turned down the opportunity to recieve one as they felt they were just doing what they were there to do. If anyone has scholarly information, please join in.

RustyBattleship

There are two levels of achievement to earn a Bronze Star. One, of course, was for combat "effectiveness" (not necessarily bravery as a Silver Star value). In other words, if the non-coms of a squad got knocked out of action and a private takes command as the sergeant to get his squad and his wounded back efficiently and safely, he would be in line with a bronze star "For Gallantry".

But another level of "efficiency" was created somewhere along the line that deserved the bronze star but not necessarily in combat. It was a tad higher than a meritorious service medal, but not by much. In fact, I think it's title was the bronze star for "Meritorious Service".

Silver Stars "For Valor" are not always awarded posthumosly (Medals of Honor often are though). A silver star was awarded to a person who showed bravery and ingenuity in a combat engagement. For example, a friend of mine who was a small Cuban welder at the shipyard got a Silver Star for combat in WW II. He was with two other soldiers in a Jeep carrying a trailer load of ammo to a semi-surrounded unit. Suddenly the Jeep blew up. When Alpazar woke up, the other two men were dead. He looked up over the hill and saw that it was a German tank that hit the Jeep. And the tank was slowly approaching to finish the job. The Jeep had been loaded with a Bazooka so little "Al" crawled to the Jeep, loaded the Bazooka and took out the tank with one shot. Then he limped back to his outfit to report that the road was now open and they could take another load of supplies in to the stranded outfit.

I asked him what kind of a tank it was. He simply said "German" but big. I quickly drew a picture of a German tank coming over a hill and a GI aiming a 2.35" Bazooka at it. He said "YES. That's the kind of tank it was."

That little guy from Cuba single-handedly took out a Tiger Mk VI. If he was a "regular yankee" he would have probably gotten the Medal of Honor.

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Shek

Debbie,

I have read the same as what Ironduke stated. Not sure if you understood the acronym that he used, but the spec ops guys doing missions where we didn't do missions would be a good case where you could award something without drawing attention. As far as the SS goes, I would not consider it to be a posthumous award, although I'm in many cases it was awarded posthumously.

braindead

OK ,after little search found that the Ministry of Defence keeps records on only awards that are given by our own goverment . But I guess that as 2-3 BSM s are given to officers (Col., a Capt.) , the rest is maybe for ground action .
And btw.: is 2 dead and ~20 wounded during 2-3 years an ordinary result for inf.platoon ?

Debbie

Thanks!

Shek

Braindead,
I don't know if average stats tell the story. My company (I left command about 1/3 of the way through) went through without any KIA, and I think without any wounded during it's OIF rotation in '03-'04. They've already suffered several KIA and numerous WIA during the first 8 months of their currrent rotation, and they will probably be extended to 15 months. I would say that the casualties you state aren't uncommon, but I don't know if it would be average.

2nd Tankie

We have a Cpl in our regimeny that has been awarded the bronze star, it can be awarded to the Brits too

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