astralis

r lee ermey, where are you when we need you?

----

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061010/...ll_sergeants_6

Army tones down drill sergeants

By PAULINE JELINEK, Associated Press Writer 7 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Hollywood may have to tone down its portrayal of the military's screaming, in-your-face boot camp drill sergeant. In today's Army, shouting is out and a calmer approach to molding young minds is in, says the head of Pentagon personnel. The Army says it has reduced by nearly 7 percent the number of recruits who wash out in the first six to 12 months of military life.


"Part of it is changing the nature of how it treats people in basic training," David S. Chu, undersecretary for personnel and readiness, said Tuesday.

That means "less shouting at everyone, in essence, which some of you may remember from an earlier generation as being the modus operandi," he said.

The changes started about a year ago, as defense officials looked for ways to make drillmasters more effective, said Lt. Col. Mike Jones, head of Army National Guard recruiting.

He said the old way was to "talk loud, talk often, get their attention" — shock treatment to teach discipline and mold the newly recruited civilian into a soldier.

But trainers found today's generation responded better to instructors who took "a more counseling" type role, Jones said, using strong tactics when needed but keeping them the exception instead of the rule.

The approach has had two positive results, he said: It has lowered attrition among those who go through training each year and has eased one of the greatest fears of recruits — their fear over whether they can make it through basic training.

Other changes aimed at improving graduation rates include such things as letting recruits with injuries or minor medical problems remain in the service, heal, and then go back to training. Before, an injury would have meant discharge, training officials said.

Numbers differ from service to service and depend on what the recruit is being trained for. Those training to be Navy SEALS or other special forces may wash out at the rate of 70 percent. Those training to be truck drivers may have an 80 percent graduation rate.

But Chu said that across all services, generally, some two-thirds of recruits finish their enlistment period — typically three or four years.

Of the third who don't make it, half bomb out in the first six to 12 months, Chu said, adding that the attrition rate is better than most private sector firms.

Keeping a balance in the number flushed out of the service is important. Too many dropouts and you lose people you really want to keep. Too few dropouts, and you are keeping people you should have let go, Chu said.

Both the military and police academies are moving away from harder-edged approaches to training, he said.

"However much it may be satisfying from the shouter's perspective, it really isn't the best way to shape young people for the future," Chu said.

He made the comments as he announced that all active duty services had met their recruiting goals for the budget year ended Sept. 30. The Marine Corps Reserve met its goal and the Air Force Reserve exceeded its goal, but they were exceptions among guard and reserve forces, some of which have seen "heavy use" due to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, Chu said.

Gun Grape

Where He's always been, "In the Marines, Sir!!!"

TopHatter

'In the Marines', outstanding!

lemontree

I feel that article is BS, drill sergeants the world over will be the same 'saddistic MOFs', unless they are ordered to train chicks, thats when this counseling BS comes in.

Then maybe I'm from the old school and don't understand what has counseling got to do with military training.

__________________

Cheers!...on the rocks!!

Anon

The pussification of the US military is a very bad thing. Especially considering the hell holes we send these poor bastards(and biitches) after training...

2DREZQ

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a high washout rate in basic a way of decreasing the number of 'washouts' when the hot steel starts flying? (& decreasing the odds of the 'washouts' taking somebody with them?)

__________________
USS North Dakota

sappersgt

I didn't too many incidents a la Ermey. Drill instructors usually did not lay hands on recruits.

I do however have to admit witnessing (and receiving) some truly world class ass chewing. Just about the only time I personally experienced an "Ermey" episode was when the Sergeant, concerned about my attitude, "invited" me into the gym for a Silat lesson (ouch!).

Discipline in the field was an entirely different matter.

lemontree

Forget tge drill NCO, one of my coursemates from another training company at the academy created some F_up, it was a hot sunday afternoon and the whole course was ordered by the Academy Cadet Adjutant (ACA) to the football fields (we went there rolling, forwards then sideways. We spent the afternoon doing 500 pushups and 500 situps. Those of us who knew how to take a punishment did just 200 odd of each exercise.

Compared to our seniors the drill NCOs were saints.

-{SpoonmaN}-

That's basically the idea, but I guess their new fear is that there won't be enough people to actually send into the places with the afforementioned flying metal.

__________________
"I have this to say to the people of Australia: Kick me, I'm different."

-{SpoonmaN}-

And I feel that someone should point out that the article says they're still going to do the screaming intimidation thing "where appropriate".
So I guess that probably means they're just going to do it a little less. And every woman I know who's been in the Forces has said that they got screamed at plenty while they were in training, I have a sneaking suspicion no instructor would give a flying f--k who they were, if you cant make your bed while you're being yelled at then I don't know how good you'd be at operating complicated equipment while someone's trying to kill you.

BenRoethig

Thank God the Corps is still the Corps. We'll at least have some warriors left. The enemy is going to let the solider cry on their shoulders and bring them a nice warm bed if the foxhole isn't comfortable enough. This is the Army for god's sake, not the Air Force.

__________________
F/A-18E/F Super Hornet: The Honda Accord of fighters.

Expat Canuck

We had Sharp training in Canada and what a load of bs. I got yelled at more in Air Cadets as a kid than I did by my basic instructors in the Reserves, couldn't tell you about reg force though but I imagine it to be similar as we where on the same base and I didn't see them getting yelled at too much either.

If you're going to pull a teary when someone is screaming at you I have no desire to be anywhere near you when someone is shooting. Don't get me started on the joy of having to distribute some womans kit and tossing her in a stretcher either. There should be one fitness standard for all. Same job same standards, there where some ladies who had every right to be in the combat arms and one took me to my first strip club in Wainright.

Loonies bounce off vaginas and get you free posters.

Officer of Engineers

That ain't a strip club. It's the Sergeants' Mess.

__________________
Chimo

Anon

Yes.

Anon

Well lord knows the US Army needs more half-assed Jessica Lynch types.