Thread: Turkey turning cool to NATO

Originally Posted by Ray

I have purposely put this thread here since NATO members do visit this corner to check up some professionally stuff.

I would sure love to hear comments from all, especially those who have served or are serving in the NATO.

Originally Posted by snapper

PS Would this post not be better under "The Western Alliance"?

thats why.

Originally Posted by snapper

Equaly dangerous sometimes. I was aware what you were talking about and myself am more than a little concerned about the shift away from secularism in Turkey. I will be happy when the EU puts away its pseudo-Christian bias and gets on with making it's area prosperous. I would welcome Turkish membership today as a sign that we are moving forwards and not living in the shadow of the past. Turkey is an enourmous market and can provide cheap labour. If the EU is about prosperity Turkey should have been given membership long ago. Don't tell me this is a just a Greek problem!

As an aside my Sister (who is an economist working for the UN) went to Egypt two years ago to help do an EU sponsored report on a future free trade agreement between the EU and Egypt... Now if they are already thinking of Egypt as a trade partner surely Turkey must come first - it is, at least in part, IN Europe!

The Turkish regular citizen is secular in heart and mind. but as all knows that when man can not realize how to make his money to feed his children, will relie more and more to the mysticism. after the synthetic economic crisis in 2001 the ex-ruling democratic leftist party lost all his credibility (this was the finger of West from my opinion)

in this case common Turks were in a desperate economic conditions. this desperation became an engine who increased their demand of non-corrupted govts. current ruling party AKP seemed to fulfill this role of conservative, non-corrupted, non-elitist party. they are talking very effecively the very same language with the streets.

former radical Islamists, newly so-called "conservative"s said that they changed their mindset and became democratic.

but it was not.

they exactly "sold" the whole country to the foreigners, ruined every economic installations, been in all sort of corruption.

they already silenced %70 of free media...

anyway as for membership of EU,

EU's democratic reformings will decrease the influence of TAF,

this is their ultimate goal,

they have an ongoing campaign which says that "TAF is unsuccessiful but we are" (for years TAF was saying that economic ad social reforms are needed for the area)

they are using the Islam the other main social manipulating system.

the first is used by PKK terrorists which is radical-nationalism.

they are using every opportunity fo weaken TAF's positions and penetrate in it.

regarding current situation i am waiting for a huge reaction from our people

because they started to smell too badly

on the otherhand,

i personally dont agree with EU...

Well it certainly seems that 'men of faith' are not immune from scandal! Why would you oppose EU membership?

can you imagine if only one of the issues that i stated above, or those scandals come to the public in lets say ENGLAND, what will be the "fate" of those in the govt. and PM?

I agree it would most likely damn a Government in the UK and ceratinly the whole compilation would end it. However the EU is not about what Government is in power in what country, nor does it have a preference for the shade of Government: It is about engendering economic prosperity within it's members countries.

To cut it short EU membership is not about individual government scandals (even it's own) but about prosperity (supposedly) and forming closer trade links between neighbours so that it makes sense for us not to fight each other for economic reasons. How then would Turkey or Europe not benefit?

Originally Posted by snapper

I agree it would most likely damn a Government in the UK and ceratinly the whole compilation would end it. However the EU is not about what Government is in power in what country, nor does it have a preference for the shade of Government: It is about engendering economic prosperity within it's members countries.

To cut it short EU membership is not about individual government scandals (even it's own) but about prosperity (supposedly) and forming closer trade links between neighbours so that it makes sense for us not to fight each other for economic reasons. How then would Turkey or Europe not benefit?

the current govts. attempts to weaken TAF's position with use of EU laws is only one thing.

i do not believe in EU because;

they have huge double standards,

they can not afford us economically,

politically,

and due to their past inner propagandas(like: mama monstruous baby killer Turks are coming...) they cannot afford us socially too.

a 70 000 000 people Turkey suddenly would become one of the biggest country in EU,

they can not share the administration of EU with us(and they must not)

all they want is our man-power in TAF. they probably want us and our army to use as EUs. and this is already pronounced many times in the history. Turkey's best export material is his soldiers.

beyond this EU's would benefit more than Turkey from this partnership. and they are actually benefiting from ongoing customs union which i am totally disagree.

no-customs taxes and no-limitations to EU products but what does EU? they do all of this and plus...is that the fairiness of EU?...

EU selling mines(which are prohibited due to international treatys) to PKK terrorists, baby-killers, (not to discuss here)

BBC is treating Kurds like opressed people, and convince English society to do and believe so without having any real idea.(not to discuss here)

and you are asking me why i am not believing in EU.

infact, how can you believe in EU?

also;

i think that we must meet all the EU reformings economically, socially, militarly and in all matters needed for the sake of our country.

but Turkey, regarding its geographical location and potential sources, must be a independent key player in the international affairs.

EU is a so-called homogened mix. if Turkey joins we must follow the EU's foreign politics, not our own.

Turkey must not be a dead weight but a counterpoise who infact can change something in the area.

i think there must be a newer formation like Cauca-Asian Union or something..and Turkey must take a key position.

in order to take such role Turkey must be "independent" which is the very real debate from the beginning like Nuri Demirag's efforts...

but this is another thread.

at the grand total;

i am not willing to join EU but i am willing to make reforming for our own sake.

Coming back to the topic,

Turkish Armed Forces is established along Nato standards. All of our communication, training, equipment, logistics standards are based on Nato guidelines. Moreover, we are heavily integrated within the Nato framework, and we take more than we give.

Turkish Armed Forces rely heavily on a flow of supplies from Nato partners, accept and purchase significantly high percentage of Nato armaments and systems. To put it shortly, without the cooperation of Nato partners, our armed forces will grind to a halt rather rapidly and surprisingly. Unfortunately, we are not self sufficient in the production and maintenance of our medium to heavy equipment.

Despite what the politicians try or do, Turkish Armed Forces can not afford to lose Nato membership.

Moreover, As OoE has pointed out, Nato is the only meaningful international organization where Turkey has a significant influence over any issues that come up. Despite all the increasing ties with Non-wesetrn countries, Nato is and will remain a significant alliance for Turkish foreign policy and military strategy.

Point taken Big K Sir, though you emphasise our differences where I would prefer to emphasise our common interests.

Originally Posted by snapper

Point taken Big K Sir, though you emphasise our differences where I would prefer to emphasise our common interests.

well if you want to reduce to the simple this is your decision.

let me remind you a saying of Napoleon: "Geograhphy is the fate of countrys"

Originally Posted by Big K

all they want is our man-power in TAF. they probably want us and our army to use as EUs. and this is already pronounced many times in the history. Turkey's best export material is his soldiers.

It should be absolutely clear that if Turkey were to join EU, it'd be required to contribute at minimum as many forces to EU defense structures as Germany, France or the UK.

That'd mean at least 10,000 men in EU-commanded deployments, 25,000 men on immediate high-readiness state, 100,000 men ready for EU/NATO deployments, a quarter million men in active, attributable forces, and a million men in wartime reserves.
Whatever forces Turkey would attribute to its internal conflicts should not be included in that.

And if we're pulling out classic quotes... anything less than that would be Turkey just looking like the "Sick Man of the Bosporus" again.

Kato,

this sentence have a meaning if you take all the post.

otherwise of course i konw that one should fulfill its responsabilities once join in the EU.

Snapper,

What is so great about EU?

Is Turkey that impoverished or afraid!

The fact that they control the Strait of Bosporus and the oil terminal for Baku oil is enough for them to have the handle!

What does the EU have?

To be frank, they are a pushover if they did not piggyback the US!

Take each country of the EU individually, they are not worth consideration at all, economically or even militarily!

Sir,

you might live here...

Ray Sir, my point is that both sides would benefit by Turkey joining the EU.