Thread: I have some dumb questions

Originally Posted by gunnut

What are the differences between a battalion, a regiment, and a brigade? Are they in direct hierarchical order? Or one can mix and match battalions and regiments to form a brigade? How are they utilized?

Within the US, a battalion consists generally of 4 companies, but may be up to 6. A regiment consists of 3-6 battalions of the same branch (i.e. an infantry regiment, an cavalry regiment, etc.). The Army had regiments up through at least WWII, I believe, and then sliced and diced to create combined arms teams that were called combat teams (RCT) or combat commands. Post-Korea, the regimental structure was ditched and brigades were created, using 3-6 battalions of differening branches (e.g. 2 infantry battalions, 1 armor battalion, 1 field artillery battalion, 1 engineer battalion, 1 support battalion).

While that's a simple and somewhat crude explanation that may be slightly off on the historical timeline, it should get the basic idea across about the difference.

Where it gets confusing is that in order to maintain the historical heritage, regiments are still used in titles, but generally don't exist (outside of 75th Ranger Regiment and the Cav Regiments). As an example, my last unit was 1st Battalion, 23rd Infantry, 3rd Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division (Stryker Brigade Combat Team). So, even though I was in a brigade, I was still linked to a Regiment, that being the 23rd Infantry Regiment. Since the 23rd Infantry Regiment HQ didn't exist, being the 1st Battalion, we had possession of all the Regimental items, to include a punch bowl made out of all the melted down CIBs and CFMBs of the men of the 23rd Infantry Regiment from Korea (they were made out of silver at the time) and the Regimental colors. Thus, the 4th Battalion, 23rd Infantry (stationed in Alaska) only had their battalion items.

In the Indian Army, it is simpler.

Three platoons make a company (coy) and four rifle coys + one support coy (heacy weapns like Mors etc) + one adminstrative coy makes a Battalion.

Three battalions make a Brigade.

Three Infantry Brigades and one Artillery Brigade makes an Infantry Division.

Three Divisions and a Corp Artillery Brigade makes a Corps.

Three Corps (normally) make an Army.

We have the Northern Army, WEstern Army, SW Army (nascent), Southern Army, Central Army and the Eastern Army. They are also known as Command in peacetime.

Originally Posted by Ray

In the Indian Army, it is simpler.

Sir,
Just to put things in perspective, in the Indian Army, what type of formation does a Brigadier command?

INDIAN ARMY

The army has a strength of about a million troops and fields 34 divisions. Its headquarters is located in the Indian capital New Delhi and it functions under the command of the Chief of Army Staff (currently General Joginder Jaswant Singh). The COAS is assisted by several other high ranking officers.

Commands
The army operates 6 tactical commands and one training command. Each command is headed by General Officer Commanding-in-Chief with the rank of Lieutenant General. Each command is directly affiliated to the Army HQ in New Delhi.

Northern Command
XIV {14} Corps - Leh, Ladakh; XV {15} Corps - Srinagar, Kashmir; XVI {16} Corps - Nagrota, Jammu

Western Command
II {2} Corps - Ambala, Haryana (Strike Corps); IX {9} Corps - Yol, Himachal Pradesh; XI {11} Corps

South Western Command
X {10} Corps - Bhatinda, Punjab

Eastern Command
III {3} Corps - Dimapur, Nagaland; IV {4} Corps - Tezpur, Assam; XXXIII {33} Corps - Siliguri, West Bengal Lieutenant General Arvind Sharma
Southern Command Pune, Maharashtra XII {12} Corps - Jodhpur, Rajasthan; XXI {21} Corps - Bhopal, Madhya Pradesh

Central Command
I {1} Corps - Mathura, Uttar Pradesh

Note: The army also operates a 7th command known as Army Training Command (ARTRAC) located in Shimla, Himachal Pradesh


Corps
A Corp is an army field formation responsible for a sector within a Command. There are 3 types of Corps in the Indian Army: Strike, Holding & Mixed. A Command generally consists of 2 or more Corps. A Corp has many more army divisions under its control. The Corps HQ is the highest field formation in the army. The list of these Corps are given against their respective commands.

In addition to this (not to be confused with the Field Corps mentioned above) are the Corps (Departmental) of the Indian Army. The corps mentioned below are the functional divisions entrusted with specific pan-Army tasks.

Combat and Support Arms
1. Corps of Signals
2. Corps of Engineers
3. Regiment of Artillery
4. The Infantry Regiments
5. Air Defence Artillery
6. Mechanised Infantry
7. Army Aviation Corps
8. Armoured Corps

Services
1. Army Dental Corps
2. Army Education Corps
3. Army Medical Corps
4. Army Ordinance Corps
5. Army Physical Training Corps
6. Army Postal Service Corps
7. Army Service Corps
8. Corps of EME
9. Corps of Military Police
10. Defence Security Corps
11. Intelligence Corps
12. Judge Advocate General Department
13. Military Farms Service
14. Military Nursing Service
15. Remount and Veterinary Corps

Division:
An army Division is an intermediate between a Corp and a Brigade. It is the largest striking force in the army. Each Division is headed by General Officer Commanding (GOC) with the rank of Major General. It usually consists 15,000 combat troops and 8,000 support elements. Currently, 34 Divisions including 4 Rapid Action Divisions, 18 Infantry Divisions, 10 Mountain Divisions, 3 Armoured Divisions and 2 Artillery Divisions make up the Indian Army. Each Division composes of several Regiments and Brigades.

Brigade: The Brigade is smaller than the Division and is roughly of the same size as that of a Regiment. A Brigade generally consists of 3 Infantry Battalions along with elements of various Combat & Support Arms & Services and is headed by a Brigadier equivalent to a Brigadier General. The Indian Army also has 5 Independent Armoured Brigades, 15 Independent Artillery Brigades, 7 Independent Infantry Brigades, 1 Independent Parachute Brigade,3 Independent Air Defence Brigades, 2 Independent Air Defence Groups and 4 Independent Engineer Brigades. These Independent Brigades operate directly under the Corps Commander (GOC Corps).

Battalion:
A Battalion is commanded by a Colonel and is the Infantry's main fighting unit. It consists of more than 900 personnel.

Company:
Headed by the Major, a Company comprises of 120 soldiers.

Platoon:
An intermediate between a Company and Section, a Platoon is headed by a Lieutenant or depending on the availability of Commissioned Officers, a Junior Commissioned Officer, with the rank of Subedar or Naib-Subedar. It has a total strength of about 36 troops.

Section:
Smallest military outfit with a strength of 11 personnel. Commanded by a Non-Commissioned Officer of the rank of Havaldar or Sergeant.

From Wikipedia

Originally Posted by TopHatter

Sir,
Just to put things in perspective, in the Indian Army, what type of formation does a Brigadier command?

A Brigadier (one star by US equivalent) commands a Brigade.

Up the ladder the more stars the man sees till he gets the knockout punch!

Jay,

A section is 10 men inthe Infantry and 11 in the Engineers.

Originally Posted by Ray

A Brigadier (one star by US equivalent) commands a Brigade.

Another Indian Army question: A Brigadier is not refered to as a general; i.e. "brigadier general" in the U.S style, is that correct? Is this a holdover from the British?

The name of this thread is getting more and more appropriate

The British and Indian Armies do not assign "General" to the Brigadier rank. The Canadian and Australian armies do.

In modern times, there is no real layman difference between regiment and brigade but a hell of alot of difference in real military terms.

To give some historic background,

A Regiment was two or more battalions. In the old days, the 1st Battalion is the field Battalion while the 2nd Battalion was just a numbered home battalion designed to push lost bodies into the 1st Battalion when losses occurred.

A Brigade was an ad-hoc formation in the field of various battalions.

However, some countries (Russia in particular) forgoe the 2nd home battalion and fielded 2 (or more) field battalions in the same regiment.

In mordern days, there is very little difference between regiment and brigade in terms of TOE BUT a BIG difference in command style. A regiment has a more regid command as all the battalions (inf, armour, guns, engineers) are part of the regiment instead of clobbled together from various combat arms. A regiment knows each and everybody's job.

A brigade has a loser command in that the brigade staff may not know the exact jobs of the battlions under its command and thus rely on the battalion commands to get the proper commands issued.

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

A brigade has a loser command in that the brigade staff may not know the exact jobs of the battlions under its command and thus rely on the battalion commands to get the proper commands issued.

Sir,
Can you provide some more detail on this?

My apologies, Major. I ran my mouth off without some stipulations. I was thinking more in terms of East Bloc regiments and West Bloc brigades. We assigned tasks to our battalions. How they carry them out is their job. East Bloc Regiments orders their battalions (and companies) with specific instructions and no deviation allowed.

As I stated before, we train for battle. They reherse for battle.

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

My apologies, Major. I ran my mouth off without some stipulations. I was thinking more in terms of East Bloc regiments and West Bloc brigades. We assigned tasks to our battalions. How they carry them out is their job. East Bloc Regiments orders their battalions (and companies) with specific instructions and no deviation allowed.

As I stated before, we train for battle. They reherse for battle.

I'm tracking now Sir. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Ray

Jay,
A section is 10 men inthe Infantry and 11 in the Engineers.

Sir,
I'll update the Wiki. Thanks!

Originally Posted by TopHatter

Another Indian Army question: A Brigadier is not refered to as a general; i.e. "brigadier general" in the U.S style, is that correct? Is this a holdover from the British?

The name of this thread is getting more and more appropriate

TH,

While the rank is of a General Officer, the word "General" is not used in the British, Indian, Pakistani or Sri Lankan Army.

There is another interesting aspect that one could know:

A Major General is junior to a Lieutenant General.

A Major is senior to Lieutenant and yet with the Generals, it is the opposite.

Why?

It is because originally a Major General was a Sergeant Major General and a Sergeant Major was junior to a Lieutenant!

In the Indian Army, the formation i.e. Brigade/ Division/ Corps/ Command remains at one location.

The units i.e. Battalions and Regiments latch on on a tenure of 2 years basis. It used to be three years earlier.

This is to ensure that there is a turnaround from a "peace" location to a "field" location.

In the field location, there are normally no schools or family accommodation as the area is right on the front or in the combat zone i.e. Counter insurgency etc.

Therefore, the turnover allows the soldiers and officers to live with their families for at least two years together.

Those who are posted to the field, be it with the unit or on staff, are given "Separated Family" Quarters.

Many an officer prefers to be posted repeatedly in the field, especially after the rank of Colonel (command of an unit) or officers of service support units (where the unit is static with the formation, but the officers keep changing on a tenure basis), because it ensures that the children get a continued education at the same school.

Those who are posted to units that move on tenure basis from one formation to another, like the Infantry, have a real tough time getting the children to have a decent education!

My children changed 11 times in a 12 years continuum for schooling before going to College!

Though that means they made many new friends, yet the lack of continuity did affect psychologically as also on the stress levels.

Fortunately, they have done well and are doing rather well.

I am fortunate that they have the Indian tradition of looking after their parents and they help me to get along with life!

That's because while I am not Taliban code enforcer, I ran a tight ship even though I was in the Army!

Why is there a separate command of SouthWestern Command at Punjab? They only have one Corps. Not only that, Central Command only has one corps. Why is that? I thought a Command consists of two Corps or more.

Is there a rank of Lt. Colonel in the Indian Army? If so, then what roles do they typically fulfill? as a XO of the battalion, second to the Colonel as the CO? If so, then how many Lt. Colonel are there in a battalion? Four?

How many Colonels are in a brigade? Four?

When you say independent brigade? You mean that they are not part of a division but get Corps tasking for specific jobs, is that correct?

What does a Field Marshal do and what equivalent rank are there? Do they carry 4 or 5 stars?


In the US, what does a Chief of Staff Army do and how is it different from the Joint Chief of Staff of the Military? Does JCS outrank Chief of Staff Army and thus can order him around?