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Thread: Who has the strongest military in Europe?

  1. #226
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    Hey.

    - September 30, 1985: Four Soviet diplomats were kidnapped at gunpoint in Islamic West Beirut. Armed jihadists dragged the four Russians from their cars and fired bullets at their feet to illicit their cooperation.
    The Islamic Liberation Organization said that all four men would be executed unless Moscow brought pressure on its Syrian ally to halt the "annihilation of Muslims in Tripoli with Soviet tanks and artillery guns." That was an interesting request because the Syrian army was 100% Islamic and at this time, the overwhelming preponderance of weaponry being deployed by Muslims against Jews was Soviet.
    Of the thirty-nine foreign diplomats, educators, and aid workers who had been kidnapped recently in Beirut, fourteen (six Americans, three Brits, four French and an Italian) were still missing. As for the fate of these men, one of the Soviets was murdered on October 2nd. The other three were released on October 30th after a Soviet KGB unit in Lebanon said that they would "review the case of the missing Soviet diplomats and to determine the feasibility of mounting a military operation to free them if they were located." Turns out they did more than study the possibilities. Sometime after receiving a demonstrative note from the KGB team, the Islamic Liberation Organization released a statement saying that the Soviets "would be released as a goodwill gesture.".

    The real story was that the KGB found the religious leaders of the group responsible for the kidnapping and sent their cut off ears to the terrorists with a note that basically said if you don't release the soviet diplomats, then we'll annihilate all your terrorist camps in Syria.

    Just because the U.S. special services are ''politically correct''(read=inefficient) doesn't mean that we love Muslim terrorists.

  2. #227
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    A shred of evidence please!

    Many people are offended by the truth and you are no exception.
    That sounds very nice but without anything to back it up it is nothing more than baseless assumption.
    Apparently the British government takes the threat of rising sea levels more seriously than you do. If you look at the Thames River in London you would see large gates built across it, which can be closed when necessary, when London is threatened by high tides due to the increasing sea levels.
    That you would link current climate change doom and gloom hype to freak tides and storms is a show of you willingness to shoehorn facts to fit your opinions
    Those gates were started in 1974 and finished in 1984 long before all the worry and publicity of climate change. Also We know London is very vulnerable to flooding under any circumstance and so this does nothing to support your assertion given,

    "According to Gilbert & Horner on 7th December 1663 Samuel Pepys recorded in his diary 'There was last night the greatest tide that ever was remembered in England to have been in this river all Whitehall having been drowned'. In 1236 the river is reported as overflowing 'and in the great Palace of Westminster men did row with wherries in the midst of the hall'. (Gilbert & Horner - 1984). Fourteen people died in the 1928 Thames flood, and after 307 people died in the UK in the North Sea Flood of 1953 the issue gained new prominence."
    The last major climatic shift in Europe was devastating and one result was large numbers of starving peasants, who formed revolutionary groups and attacked governments in Western Europe.
    so when was this and what exactly happened, it makes a very interesting bed time story but without dates and historical references this is meaningless to those who haven't studied whatever period of European history this is supposed to have happened in.

    Considering that most Europeans are currently dependant on government welfare they would probably become upset if this welfare support was suddenly reduced or eliminated.
    I Assume you have proof of this. official UN, government, intel agency statistics to support this because if not get rid of it.
    This kind of internal strife is much more likely than a large scale continental war between medium European powers.
    Did you bother to read the thread title, this is "who has the strongest mil in Europe" not "doom and gloom in all its glory"
    Most Europeans simply will not accept the fact that Muslim Terrorists would like to kill them all
    When you present items as your opinion its all good but when you present something as fact you are supposed to back it up properly. Do so or make it clear that this is nought more than your opinion.
    Also, Socialists and Muslim terrorists have a few things in common:

    -Hatred of Jews
    -Hatred of Christianity
    -Hatred of Capitalism

    Now here you have overstepped the line. As a socialist (someone who believes in social equality), a soldier and a Christian I take extreme offence at being compared in such a lame and unsupported manner with terrorism of any kind. I am trained to counter such people and to suggest I hate Jews, Christians or capitalism (while not my favorite governmental form) is a total abhoration. Make your apology now without reserve to the many people you have just defamed.
    Since France is the birthplace of Socialism, the more extreme socialists that reside in Europe (and American Universities), would be greatly heartened to see Muslim Terrorists succeed, which is why they whine so loudly about the rights of detained Muslim Terrorists. Yet these Socialists will not lift a finger to help any Christians who are under attack from Muslim extremists.
    Before anyone (even those who might share some of your point of view) accept anything you have posted you will have to support it with proof. We need more than the self serving word of an apparent right wing radical, PROOF.
    Also, it is very unlikely that Europe’s Socialist Governments would wage war against each other; the more likely scenario is civil strife and repression within Europe rather than a general war between European nations. Consequently, counting apposing numbers of military units, troop numbers and military hardware is pointless because European countries never intend to actually fight any major wars. If a major war begins, Europe will look to the USA for it’s security rather than fight and attempt to win on its own.
    More baseless assumption! I say baseless because you have offered nothing in the way of proof. Oh an before you continue to rant on in the same vain you might recall that the UK was one of a number of European nations that went into Iraq with the U.S.A.
    Last edited by Recon_sgt; 28 Oct 07, at 18:49.
    they have us surrounded, the poor bastards.

  3. #228
    New Member mohassan's Avatar
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    I've always believed Britain is the most powerful state in Europe. Then followed by France.

    1. Uk Nuke deterrence
    2.Perm member of security council
    3.Full member of north atlantic aliance
    4.very well trained professional soldiers
    5.worlds most elite spec forces ( pioneers of special forces techniques)
    Education is the best provision for old age - Aristotle

  4. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anon View Post
    Forget siezing fuel, what exactly is it that any Air Force in Europe is going to do to stop us from flying more in?

    Seriously.

    We have more airlift than all of Europe combined, probably 2-3x over. You can keep your fuel....we'll simply bring our own.
    Actually, that statement is incorrect. I myself am a german reservist of the Luftwaffe. I was on active duty for 3 years, and spent one tour in Kabul.
    To your statement: Granted....the Lw is currently restructuring and replacing its archaic interceptors (F4 Phantom II) with the new Eurofighter. However, what u dont realize (or know) is that Germany has an in-place air defense network within our own border, with SAMs ready for action.
    Secondly, due to Americas exploits in Afghanistan and Iraq, there are only skeleton crews at ALL US bases in germany at this time...roughly 12,000 troops....and they are all garrisoned. If a conflict was to erupt between US forces from within Germany, it would be over in a matter of hours....
    The United States military is the most stretched military on this earth right now.......I mean LOOK: The're sending the Kansas National Guard to Iraq.....to where there is no one in Kansas to clean up after a tornado......
    On top of everything else, the US can't even keep up a steady supply flow up and running to troops already deployed.....and you think u can take it up with the second most powerful military NATO has to offer???? Please!

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by mohassan View Post
    I've always believed Britain is the most powerful state in Europe. Then followed by France.

    1. Uk Nuke deterrence
    2.Perm member of security council
    3.Full member of north atlantic aliance
    4.very well trained professional soldiers
    5.worlds most elite spec forces ( pioneers of special forces techniques)
    Uh, nope......

    The UK has tactical nukes.......so does Germany, so does France, so does Italy, so does Spain, so does Denmark.....I could keep going.....

    Look at globalfirepower.org

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalem View Post
    Exactly. If one wants to think about a "realistic" fantasy scenario that somehow doesn't go nuclear, well then just eliminate all blue water shipping, because the U.S. Navy can sink it all pretty quickly and no one can change that. No one can even come close. So no more supertankers, no more mutton carriers, etc.

    -dale
    Sorry to burst your bubble again! BUT: Germany has the only true stealth submarine class on the planet right now (U212) with a suspended Hybrid drive.....during sea trials, it popped up right behind a US aircraft carrier in the middle of a battle group.....no one ever noticed it before it surfaced. The Commander of that particular battle group (a Rear Admiral) was subsequently relieved of duty. Now, in a realistic scenario: Don't u think the first thing to be going down is the US's carrier fleet???? And by the way....if the European economy crashed because the US seized all the oil....well, then your economy is soon to follow.....without Europe feeding US foreign deficits, it can't survive very long.

  7. #232
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    Sorry to burst your bubble but Allied subs getting within killing range of a carrier has been going on for decades even by noisy Canadian and Australian dinosaurs. Nothing new there.
    Chimo

  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Sorry to burst your bubble but Allied subs getting within killing range of a carrier has been going on for decades even by noisy Canadian and Australian dinosaurs. Nothing new there.

    Was gunna say, didnt china sneak up on a carrier last year? There is a thread here somewhere I think.

  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Sorry to burst your bubble but Allied subs getting within killing range of a carrier has been going on for decades even by noisy Canadian and Australian dinosaurs. Nothing new there.
    You're not bursting mine...you're just re-emphasizing my point.....if noisy subs can do it....what do u think the stealths will do to the US carrier fleet?!?
    What gives the US its incredible long range lethality is in deed the carrier borne fleet....if it disappears.......well, u know the rest.

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobra226 View Post
    You're not bursting mine...you're just re-emphasizing my point.....if noisy subs can do it....what do u think the stealths will do to the US carrier fleet?!?
    What gives the US its incredible long range lethality is in deed the carrier borne fleet....if it disappears.......well, u know the rest.
    The US does have the world's biggest and the most technically advanced sub-fleet.

  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobra226 View Post
    You're not bursting mine...you're just re-emphasizing my point.....if noisy subs can do it....what do u think the stealths will do to the US carrier fleet?!?
    What gives the US its incredible long range lethality is in deed the carrier borne fleet....if it disappears.......well, u know the rest.
    No, it does not. What you're not doing is studying the actual situation. Those noisy subs were lying in wait. Not stalking the carrier. Even your stealth sub won't be able to do that. Travel too fast and you will create too much noise which means that you're not going to keep up with the carrier.

    At which point, that explains why all those subs managed to get within range. They knew where the carrier was going to be (the exercise area). That is not going to happen during wartime.
    Chimo

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    No, it does not. What you're not doing is studying the actual situation. Those noisy subs were lying in wait. Not stalking the carrier. Even your stealth sub won't be able to do that. Travel too fast and you will create too much noise which means that you're not going to keep up with the carrier.

    At which point, that explains why all those subs managed to get within range. They knew where the carrier was going to be (the exercise area). That is not going to happen during wartime.
    How hard do you think it is to keep track of an aircraft carrier (where it is, and what its heading is)....especially in the European theatre (Med, or North Sea)????? Not very....i have studied the situation...believe me....my father works for Thyssen-Krupp.....together with a conglomerate of Siemens that developed the hybrid drive. It is still fast enough when silent, to maneuvre into an ideal poaching position without being noticed. That is...what it was designed for. When i went to Kiel, I got to see a short clip of what happened that day...believe me.....very cool stuff. Again....whats easier to spot...a carrier, or a sub (silent or not)

  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    No, it does not. What you're not doing is studying the actual situation. Those noisy subs were lying in wait. Not stalking the carrier. Even your stealth sub won't be able to do that. Travel too fast and you will create too much noise which means that you're not going to keep up with the carrier.

    At which point, that explains why all those subs managed to get within range. They knew where the carrier was going to be (the exercise area). That is not going to happen during wartime.

    reminds me so much of Silent Hunter... im gunna go sink sum Japs now

  14. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobra226 View Post
    How hard do you think it is to keep track of an aircraft carrier (where it is, and what its heading is)....especially in the European theatre (Med, or North Sea)????? Not very....i have studied the situation...believe me....my father works for Thyssen-Krupp.....together with a conglomerate of Siemens that developed the hybrid drive. It is still fast enough when silent, to maneuvre into an ideal poaching position without being noticed. That is...what it was designed for. When i went to Kiel, I got to see a short clip of what happened that day...believe me.....very cool stuff. Again....whats easier to spot...a carrier, or a sub (silent or not)
    Well, you have not studied enough. If BACKFIRES and BADGERS have to get within 100 miles to find a carrier, you're really pushing it to tell me a sub could do a better job.
    Chimo

  15. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adux View Post
    The US does have the world's biggest and the most technically advanced sub-fleet.
    Yeah, ok...show's how well you're informed....check out naval-technology.org or com....can't remember

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