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Thread: Canada Goes Tankless

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave angel
    on your first point Colonel, i would put forward BATUS as the obvious candidate - training areas in the UK and Germany are becoming both more crowded and more restricted and so more training is done at BATUS.
    Unless plans have changed, the British Army were supposed to stand down BATUS in 2010. The Germans have already left and was replaced by the 1st Regiment, Royal Canadian Horse Artillery from CFB Edmonton.
    Chimo

  2. #62
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    A tank army is reborned!



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    Saturday » September 9 » 2006

    Canada sends tanks to Afghanistan
    Officials had said Leopards were readied for exercises; move marks first time vehicles will be sent into combat

    David Pugliese
    The Ottawa Citizen

    Saturday, September 09, 2006

    CREDIT: The Canadian Press
    Canada's fleet of Leopard tanks, like this one shown at CFB Edmonton, underwent a $145-million upgrade in the late 1990s to equip the vehicles with new computers and heat-sensing gear to help improve their fighting capability.

    Less than three weeks after it denied it was sending Leopard tanks to Afghanistan, the Canadian military is set to ship as many as 20 of the heavy-tracked armoured vehicles to Kandahar to provide additional protection for its troops.

    Although the tanks have been used once overseas on a peace support mission in Kosovo in the 1990s, this is the first time they will be sent into an actual combat situation.

    A warning order was issued earlier this week to the Lord Strathcona's Horse (Royal Canadians) in Edmonton to prepare for the deployment. Twenty tanks are being readied for the operation and about 300 personnel will be heading to Afghanistan.

    The Leopards will be used for escort duty for Canadian convoys, which have continually come under attack by the Taliban, government sources said.

    In addition, some soldiers have suggested the presence of tanks would make insurgents think twice about attacking Canadian convoys.

    The decision to ratchet up Canada's force comes as military officers acknowledge they underestimated the resilience of the Taliban. NATO has been asking for more equipment and soldiers from its allies to deal with the increasing threat in southern Afghanistan.

    But government sources said the decision behind sending the tanks to Afghanistan is to provide more protection for Canada's Provincial Reconstruction Teams, rather than use the armoured vehicles directly in combat against the Taliban.

    Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor has said he plans to put more emphasis on the teams that provide medical and humanitarian help to Afghan civilians. Part of that is increasing the protection for those teams that use light-armoured vehicles and armoured trucks called G-Wagons.

    "The protection levels aren't adequate over there," said one source.

    Besides convoy escort, the tanks would be used to rush to the aid of light-armoured vehicles that have been ambushed by the Taliban.

    Canada has more than 2,000 military personnel in Afghanistan.

    It will take at least a month to get the Leopards over to Afghanistan, but that deployment could be sped up if the U.S. military ships the vehicles using its large transport aircraft. Otherwise, the tanks will be sent by ship.

    In the late 1990s, the Canadian military spent $145 million to upgrade its 114 Leopards with new computers and heat-sensing equipment to improve their fighting capability.

    On Aug. 24, the Citizen reported that military maintenance crews were working overtime to prepare the service's Leopard tanks for deployment and several soldiers told the newspaper the vehicles were headed to Afghanistan. The Canadian Forces, however, said the tanks were destined for an exercise in Canadian Forces Base Wainwright, Alta.

    Besides having heavier armour than the existing Canadian vehicles in Afghanistan, the Leopards are equipped to mount devices and plows capable of clearing mines.

    The Leopards, capable of a maximum speed of 65 km/h, will not have trouble keeping up with the convoys. The Canadian tanks have a crew of four and were built in Germany. They are armed with a 105-millimetre gun.

    The tank has made a comeback in the army, which had been in the process of switching over to an entirely wheeled fleet of armoured vehicles. Army commander Lt.-Gen. Andrew Leslie has made it clear he wants troops to retain their skills in working with tanks.

    The Leopards were in the process of being mothballed or sold off, but with the Afghan war heating up, army commanders put a halt to that process in May.

    Canadian and NATO troops, along with the Afghan army, are currently in battle with an estimated 700 Taliban near Kandahar City. According to NATO officials, the force taking part in Operation Medusa is closing the circle around the besieged insurgents. There have, however, been reports that fresh reinforcements of Taliban are moving into the area to fight the Canadians.

    Five Canadian soldiers were killed over the Labour Day long weekend during Operation Medusa. One died when U.S. warplanes mistakenly opened fire on a group of Canadian troops. Four others were killed in battles with the Taliban.
    © The Ottawa Citizen 2006




    Copyright © 2006 CanWest Interactive, a division of CanWest MediaWorks Publications, Inc.. All rights reserved.
    Chimo

  3. #63
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    This has effectively killed the MGS. The MGS arguement was that it was easier and cheaper to deploy (still true) but not because it was a better vehicle. Now, we've gone beyond and deploy an entire sqn(+) which means we now have the capability to deploy a tactically superior vehicle (the MGS has superior operational manouverability).
    Chimo

  4. #64
    Senior Contributor Canmoore's Avatar
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    I saw this in the citizen today while at work.

    I am very pleased that they are sending in the Leopards, if they perform well (which i think they will) I think that it will propell the military and government to invest more into heavy armour in the future.

    I bet the boys over at Lord Strath's are anxious to finally get out and "stretch" the wings of there tanks. I cant imagine what it would be like to train for war in the leo's for years on end, and never get to use your skills, other than in training excersises.

  5. #65
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    Three cheers to the Leopard Squadron deployment!!,probably had something to do with the Dutch Pzh2000 performance over there.Maybe the CAF shouldn't have gotten rid of its M109's.Why dont the lads get a flight of F-18's for CAS?In an Infantry slogging battle,its incredulous that a equipped force such as the CAF,hasn't provided overwhelming fire support.Anyways my reason for posting,has more to do with psy-ops.As some more enlightened members may know,Muslims are not allowed idolatry,during the Crusades,they were in awe of the Franks large multicolored flags with symbolic patterns.Hence I propose that the Leopards going over be given a heavily symbolic,phantasmagoric,psychedelic type paint scheme,replete with large equally garish flags flying from the turret.This should have an effect of bemusing these simple peasant folk,lining their sights on one of these Leos,they would be confoundedand bewildered,thereby hesitating to fire,giving our brave lads the extra few seconds to mow them down or alternatively crushing them under the treads.Here is an example:
    Attached Images  

  6. #66
    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    Why dont the lads get a flight of F-18's for CAS?
    What is the status of the upgrade program? Are they even using any PGMs other then the AGM-65? They more or less have sat out in the past because they were not able to pitch in.

    Are they training for CAS operations?

    Too bad with a nation with one of the largest economies in the world I almost typed do their pilots even practice dropping bombs as if we were talking about Cambodia.

    The Leopards, capable of a maximum speed of 65 km/h, will not have trouble keeping up with the convoys
    Fresh out the factory and under ideal conditions. Wouldn't that be a job for the LAV-IIIs as they can move as fast as the convoy?
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave angel View Post
    dumping tanks may sound like a bad idea, but if you can't get them where you need them then you might as well not have them.
    You always need them when you're invaded.

    That alone is reason enough for every nation on earth to maintain a force of MBTs.

    Quote Originally Posted by dave angel View Post
    but by all accounts Warrior can do it just as well at half the weight.
    Warriors dont even have missiles, so no, there is no way they could provide the full range of desired infantry support with just 30mm guns.

    Not even Bradleys or other ATGM armed vehicles can, hence the push for big-gun armed vehicles like MGS to begin with.

    What's the latest on the push to send these tanks to A-stan?

    Any changes?
    Last edited by Bill; 19 Sep 06, at 06:21.

  8. #68
    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/NAS...=1112101662670

    Dutch treat: Exchanging vehicles for flight time

    CANADA
    The Canadian Press
    OTTAWA (Sep 15, 2006)
    Canada has lent its Dutch comrades five heavily armoured Nyala patrol vehicles for use in southern Afghanistan.

    In exchange, they have offered flight time on helicopters. Some of those choppers more than likely were sold to the Netherlands by the Tory government in 1991. A spokesperson for the Canadian Expeditionary Force calls it "a temporary loan until the Dutch are ready to receive their own vehicles."
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by M21Sniper View Post
    What's the latest on the push to send these tanks to A-stan?

    Any changes?
    A Sqn, LdSH (RC) is being sent. A total of 15 LEO 1C2s. 4 trps and a Sqn cmd trp of 3 tanks. The USAF has booked transport as of the 19 Sept, today.
    Chimo

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    What is the status of the upgrade program? Are they even using any PGMs other then the AGM-65? They more or less have sat out in the past because they were not able to pitch in.
    http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/equ.../intro_e.asp#1
    http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/equ...8/future_e.asp

    Quote Originally Posted by troung View Post
    Fresh out the factory and under ideal conditions. Wouldn't that be a job for the LAV-IIIs as they can move as fast as the convoy?
    Quebec driving is what pissed off the locals. Now, they have to deal with Alberta trucks.
    Chimo

  11. #71
    Senior Contributor Canmoore's Avatar
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    Question is what will happen in 2020? when the CF-18's life is over. Id like to see the CF with a fleet of F-22's

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canmoore View Post
    Question is what will happen in 2020? when the CF-18's life is over. Id like to see the CF with a fleet of F-22's
    Good money says JSF or Superbug
    Chimo

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    A Sqn, LdSH (RC) is being sent. A total of 15 LEO 1C2s. 4 trps and a Sqn cmd trp of 3 tanks. The USAF has booked transport as of the 19 Sept, today.
    Well i guess that about settles the debate i had with that dumbassed squid at the other board then, doesn't it?

    Truly he was one of the most biitch-slap worthy deck-swabbin' assclowns i have ever run across.

    PS: The canadian organizational system is goofy.

    By US Standards a 15 tanks is one Armor company with 1 tank to spare. A US Army Sqn is an Approx Bn sized formation. It seems like a CA troop is the same as a US Army tank Platoon, and a CA Sqn is equiv to a US Army Armor company.
    Last edited by Bill; 19 Sep 06, at 07:45.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by M21Sniper View Post
    Well i guess that about settles the debate i had with that dumbassed squid at the other board then, doesn't it?

    Truly he was one of the most biitch-slap worthy deck-swabbin' assclowns i have ever run across.
    You know, if the CF truly went with what he suggested, we would've disbanded the Royal Canadian Armoured Corps. Because there is no way for any officer to get promoted past Captain. At most a Captain can command a troop but a Sqn command (let's not quibble because frankly this entire sqn-bn-commando-coy-troop-battery thing is really screw up from one army to the next) is a Maj. Well, how is a Maj going to make it to LCol, a regt (ok battalion to you guys) command?

    Keeping a tank regt would at least suggest a career path is openned to a tank battalion size command.

    After that, it would have to be Officer exchange with the US. You do know our current CDS, Rick Hilliar, was the 2IC of the US III Corps.
    Chimo

  15. #75
    Senior Contributor Canmoore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M21Sniper View Post
    Well i guess that about settles the debate i had with that dumbassed squid at the other board then, doesn't it?

    Truly he was one of the most biitch-slap worthy deck-swabbin' assclowns i have ever run across.
    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    You know, if the CF truly went with what he suggested
    What? Who?

    Im confused...what did who say?

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