Thread: Canada Goes Tankless

Originally Posted by BFD15

It would seem from news reports today that the purchase of used Leopard tanks was looked at and rejected during the summer and is only now being reported. It was nice to have the hopes up for a day and than dashed the next. I can only hope the offer is made again and the gov't sees the value and chooses to act.

Hmm, perhaps they rejected this, because there was a plan to send them (leo's) into A-stan, and they didnt want to media to spin the issue around that we are putting our boys into harms way in vintage tanks, when there are newer ones to be had at a good price.

Also, this is a Minority Government, so if the Opposition parties got wind that the Conservatives were approving a plan to buy tanks (which are only used in war, not peacekeeping) they would spin this to generate support from all the pro-peackeeping and anti-war people out there.

$350 grand for a Leopard 2? It's a steal!

One of my more interesting jobs was to tag along on evaluation missions to foreign militaries. WAAAy back then you could buy a NEW Type 59 for about $350k. New British L-7 105mm gun, Italian Ferranti, sights and fire control, french wiring harness, German comms, American diesel engine and air conditioning not quite doubled the price.

There was at that time a really good market in buying used or derelict T-54s and T-62s (halftracks too) and upgrading them.

This is the report


Defence Department nixes proposal to buy tanks from Germany and Switzerland

Canadian Press

Thursday, November 02, 2006

OTTAWA (CP) - The Canadian military recently considered but ultimately rejected buying slightly used tanks from the German and Swiss armies, a spokesman said Wednesday.

A team of staff officers, who monitor the military surplus-equipment market, did talk to both European countries last June about purchasing little-used A-4 and A-5 versions of the Leopard-2 tank.

"They were checking prices that were out there, but that staff check did not go any further," said Lieut. Adam Thomson.

The decision not to proceed was made last summer mostly because military planners had not identified a need for the armoured vehicles, he said.

"That's why they haven't considered it further," said Thomson.

A new Leopard-2 tank goes for about US$6 million, but used ones can be had for US$350,000.

Five of Canada's 42-tonne Leopard tanks have been sent to Afghanistan and another 10 are to arrive over the next month.

The army is also sending two recovery vehicles used to retrieve disabled tanks, as well as two armoured engineering vehicles.

They're part of the reinforcements ordered by the chief of defence staff, Gen. Rick Hillier, in September after Taliban insurgents chose to stand and fight in the Panjwaii district, west of Kandahar.

Instead of facing hit-and-run guerrilla tactics as they had for months, the Canadian soldiers found themselves in September fighting a deeply entrenched enemy in a conventional-style campaign.

It was determined at that time to send tanks because of the added level of protection they would provide to infantry.

Just a few months ago, the Canadian Forces considered going tank-free - retiring its stock of rough 50 Leopards and replacing them with a lighter Mobile Gun System called the Stryker.
© The Canadian Press 2006

So do you think that they will reconsider this? I mean 350k!!

Good God, Kid,

Ease up.

1) Our current LEO 1C2s will last us until 2015. We have not identified a need for immediate replacement

2) Those LEO 2s can only get cheaper as time goes by.

3) We don't know what's available by 2010.

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Good God, Kid,

Ease up.

1) Our current LEO 1C2s will last us until 2015. We have not identified a need for immediate replacement

2) Those LEO 2s can only get cheaper as time goes by.

3) We don't know what's available by 2010.

ok...that makes sence..

I just really hope that I get to drive one is all

I can understand his enthusiasm.

At 350k, im thinking about trying to talk my old man into buying us one.

What I suspect is what we did with the LEO 1C1s. We'll send them over to Germany to upgaded to new chasis and a turret with a new gun and just renamed them to LEO C3s ... guess what kind of chasis and what kind of turret with what kind of gun.

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Good God, Kid,

Ease up.

1) Our current LEO 1C2s will last us until 2015. We have not identified a need for immediate replacement

2) Those LEO 2s can only get cheaper as time goes by.

3) We don't know what's available by 2010.

No offense Colonel, but the Leo 1's have been obsolete for almost a decade and a half. The liberals could be back in power in four years. Get them now while the window is open.

Originally Posted by BenRoethig

No offense Colonel, but the Leo 1's have been obsolete for almost a decade and a half. The liberals could be back in power in four years. Get them now while the window is open.

Not for the arm'd recee role and we're in Afghanistan until at least 2009 - more like 2012 ... and as much you would like to think otherwise, we can't fight another war elsewhere.

However, this being said, there's alot of bureaucrazy that must be got through 1st. The very fact that the tanks have been identified is the final nail in the coffin for the MGS. You need to redirect an entire Project Management Office (meaning you've got to fire the Colonel in charge at the moment) and replace with a whole new direction (ie, at least 15,000 pages of paper work - that's just the business case) and whole staff.

Yes, I remember those days.

Now, can you name me how many armies that we're likely to be enemies with that are better equipped than the T-72? I count two - Russia and China and in China's case, the LEO 1C2 can still take them on.

Originally Posted by BenRoethig

No offense Colonel, but the Leo 1's have been obsolete for almost a decade and a half. The liberals could be back in power in four years. Get them now while the window is open.

The Leo1C2's aren't bad tanks at all simply because Canada will probably never need to engage in a first tier tank battle again. What Canada needs them for is for everything else that a tank does.

Of course, at 350k a piece, those Leo2's are a total steal...