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Reply With QuoteBloody discrimination ,,, only some prisoners , shit , thats awwwwwful
So yesterday the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) decided that in Scoppola vs Italy that European some criminals in prison must be alowed to vote.
Ruling is here: ECHR Portal HTML View
However it appears that what is at fault if the 'blanket ban' on prisoners voting rights: "General, automatic and indiscriminate disenfranchisement of all serving prisoners, irrespective of the nature or gravity of their offences, is incompatible with Article 3 of Protocol No 1 [the right to free elections] of the European Convention on Human Rights," says the judgement.
Scoppola vs Italy affects the UKs ourstanding case before the Court so the UK attorney general, Dominic Grieve, intervened in the appeal over the Italian case of Scoppola. He said that when ruling on Britain, the court had not given sufficient weight to "different approaches between states to the same social issue... Such restrictions are inevitably bound up with the political culture and political evolution of each state," Mr Grieve said. "Provided that restrictions on the right to vote are not arbitrary and do not prejudice the free expression of the opinion of the people, different states are properly entitled ... to take different views." (Prisoners must be given the vote in UK, European court rules - Telegraph) Not so according to the Court; by agreeing to Article 3 and it's Protocols of the Convention you have disbared any 'free expression'.
Because of the ambiguity of this ruling individual national courts may still have some leeway and perhaps those who had commited more serious crimes could still have their voting 'rights' removed. The Court ruled that there was no breach in the Scoppola case because Italy allows some prisoners the vote. One joke suggestion is that we (the UK) should have a lottery among all prisoners to select one who can vote in each election and therefore escape the 'blanket ban' and fall within the Scoppola criteria.
It does not escape the fact that in February 2011 the House of Commons voted 234 to 22 to oppose the ECHR previous ruling in the British case.
Bloody discrimination ,,, only some prisoners , shit , thats awwwwwful
"When England was a kingdom, we had a king.
When we were an empire, we had an emperor.
Now we're a country
What you don't allow the prisoners to vote? Savages!
No such thing as a good tax - Churchill
To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.
Of course if some prisoners were alowed to vote and others not it would, as you hint, open other cases for dicrimination.Originally Posted by tankie
Bloody discrimination ,,, only some prisoners , shit , thats awwwwwful
They may get the vote but they cannot make voting officials go into prisons to oversee the process
criminals in prison must be alowed to vote.
well then - they should probably let them out too - since they don't enjoy being in there....
Their "right" to be free is infringed by being in prison. And they should retain the right to determine who runs the country? Can they elect a fellow prisoner and send him to Rome to run the country?
"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."
In Germany there's an ongoing supreme court case in which prisoners complain that they have to pay postage to mail in their votes.
I dare say should they lose in the German court they will appeal to the ECHR.
Not allowing prisoners to vote will give huge advantages to any two bit politician that has connections within the criminal system.
Jail your political opponents on a fake conviction, making sure they remain incarcerated pending trial for the duration of an election and thus unable to vote. Or change the rules after your election victory and keep them locked up forever with beheading them also an option.
Stuff like this happened plenty of times in the past I might add.
If you're going to make it that easy to gain power, then how are you ever going to end up with a smart, competent, effective dictator?
At the very least there should be a smart plan required as a selection requirement in my opinion.
Then do it on line under supervision. If others have to pay why shouldn't they? If they want to be free to vote in a manner that suits them better then don't commit a crime that puts you in prison.
That's a given
Don't you think someone with a power to imprison that many people could also change laws or the Constitution of the country?
No such thing as a good tax - Churchill
To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.
Bit of a contradiction there. You can't jail someone on a fake conviction and hold them pending trial at the same time. I don't know where you're from, but here in the US you can vote from jail if you haven't been convicted yet...innocent until proven guilty, etc. The vote is denied convicted felons both as a form of punishment and as a practical political matter. Imagine a prison located in a politician's district where all the prisoners agree to vote for a politician in exchange for, say, his getting the warden fired or for legislation shortening sentences... And as for jailing people who would vote for your opponent, there wouldn't be a jail big enough to hold them all in most political races...
To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato
Others don't have to pay postage, outside prisons you can mail votes for free (or go to cast your ballot directly). That's the crux of the case.
Don't forget in that though that the USA is the one non-totalitarian country worldwide with the largest prisoner number as a share of the population.
In Alabama and Mississippi over 30% of black adult men are banned from voting for life. That does represent a group within the population large enough to make this a rather significant disenfranchisement - and it doesn't matter why you disenfranchise the group of their right to vote.
Selective voting right disenfranchisement is how Stalin took over Eastern Europe after WW2 btw.
Interesting stuff. Thanks.
To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato
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