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Thread: 2021: The New Europe

  1. #46
    NUS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    Yes,it's a fiasco
    Only in a current paradigm.

    But dude,with all respect,what has Libya to do with anyone in EU?
    Your present is the (best case) future of Libya. Thats all.
    Winter is coming.

  2. #47
    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUS View Post

    Your present is the (best case) future of Libya. Thats all.
    No.What we have is a systemic error.They don't have a system other than the islamic one and don't have the people to make one.Everywhere between LA and Vladivostok(going W to E) there are plenty of good people that can replace the current elites and things will continue.Roads will be built,cars will be made and inventions will be patented.The Arab world first has to create an educated middle class before it can think of anything more.It will need generations.The Arab Spring actually set them backwards in that regard.
    Democracy is a product of the middle class.The present crisis in Europe is the consequence of ignoring the interests of the mid class or showing them in a distorted manner.But everyone in Europe has the potential to be on tracks in a short period if the cause of the problem is addressed.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  3. #48
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    "Merkel said she was heading to Brussels "with the aim of changing the EU treaty" to push through her goals, which she summed up as follows: "Rules must be respected. Respect for them must be supervised. Their violation must have consequences," she said."

    They tried such 'rules' before. Guess who broke them? The Germans on re-unification...

    On the Libya, Arab Spring/EU comparison I would suggest the two are opposite. The European equivalents to the arab crowds in Cairo and elsewhere are on the streets in Athens etc. While the old Arab Governments were 'corrupt' and nepotistic the whole story of the Euro has been one of fraud: They even admit now that Greece should never have been alowed to join but I don't see anyone being prosecuted. In stead of democracy we get new Governments made of Eurocrats and while this is nepotism in the classical sense it is a form of political nepotism.
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  4. #49
    tankie Military Professional tankie's Avatar
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    Nigel Farage is spot on.


    European banks need an extra 114.7bn euros (£97.7bn) to survive the eurozone debt crisis, the region's banking authority has said.
    The European Banking Authority said the overall shortfall, including an emergency capital buffer, is 13.1bn euros (£11.1bn) for German banks and 7.3bn euros (£6.2bn) for French banks.
    Meanwhile in Spain, the shortfall comes to 26.2bn euros (£22.3bn) and 15.4bn euros (£13.1bn) for those in Italy.
    The banks now need to raise that capital and have until January 20 to present their plans - and until mid-June to complete them.
    It comes as the European Central Bank said it would offer cheaper loans for banks struggling amid the financial crisis.
    President Mario Draghi spoke at a news conference after the bank cut the base rate of interest for the 17 Eurozone countries to 1%, taking it back to the record low of earlier this year.
    Mr Draghi said the bank will offer European banks more measures to ease their cashflow, including three-year loans and easing of spending criteria from January 2012.
    He said the decision to cut the base rate was not unanimous.
    The quarter point cut is aimed at countering the twin threat of recession and deflation caused by the region's debt crisis.
    Mr Draghi also warned that inflation is likely to stay above 2% for several months to come.
    Markets were unimpressed, however, with his efforts to try and deal with the eurozone crisis.
    During his speech, the FTSE 100 turned negative, and was down 0.5%.
    The main European markets didn't take any comfort either from what they heard; the CAC was down 2.1% and the DAX lost 1.7%.'Nee
    The bank has also downgraded its growth figures for next year, saying the outlook remains highly uncertain.
    Mr Draghi said: "The intensified financial market tensions are continuing to dampen economic activity in the euro area and the outlook remains subject to high uncertainty and substantial downside risks."
    He has previously hinted that further bond purchases were possible if Europe's leaders can come up with a credible plan to enforce budget discipline among the 17 countries that use the euro.
    That is the goal of an EU summit in Brussels that begins tonight


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  5. #50
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    The latest fiasco:

    The main measures:

    *a cap of 0.5% of GDP on countries' annual structural deficits

    *"automatic consequences" for countries whose public deficit exceeds 3% of GDP

    *the tighter rules to be enshrined in countries' constitutions (Spain has already done this)

    *European Stability Mechanism (ESM) to be accelerated and brought into force in July 2012

    *adequacy of 500bn-euro (£427bn; $666bn) limit for ESM to be reassessed

    *Eurozone and other EU countries to provide up to 200bn euros to the IMF to help debt-stricken eurozone members

    These measures will be part of seperate Treaty outside EU Treaties as Britain, Sweden, Hungary and Czech Republic don't agree. The new Treaty is supposed to be in place by next March.

    Problems:
    1. As this new Treaty is NOT EU law no EU money or officials can be used without the other four EU 'partners' being present. Herein lies a legal minefield that will make a few lawyers very rich I predict.

    2. The other legal 'fix' here is the extra money to the IMF: By EU rules, and the Germans insist on, the ECB cannot lend to Governments. However the IMF can so they are going to send this money to an 'offshore holding account' to bypass their own rules; nice fix.

    3. It is not quite clear what "automatic consequences" means but it's understood to be fines. So if Greece, Italy and Spain etc public deficits exceeds 3% of GDP next year they will be fined? I have NEVER heard such crass lunacy! The EU itself predicts that by 2020 Greeces deficit will be 80% and they are only being propped up by EFSF and IMF loans so who is going to pay the fines? Foot... aim... shoot! Quite incredible.

    4. The ESM is another name for a new EFSF (which will also continue!). So we shall two bail out funds! "If you think that running together Europe’s old rescue fund (EFSF) with the new one (ESM) to double firepower to €880bn is a reassuring move – as some analysts apparently do – you should have your head examined." If one EU bail-out fund flops, create two – Telegraph Blogs We all KNOW that if Italy defaults 500bn-euro is NOT enough, so this is NOT an answer to the main question of who's going to pay?

    This is NOT about solving the problems it's soley about the Franco-German axis grabbing more control over other European economies to stop them threatening the axis. Ireland, for example, has the lowest Corporation Tax in the EU... Les Frogs consider this 'unfair' as naturaly business would prefer to locate to Ireland rather than say France. 'Harmonisation', as it is called, will dictate the Ireland cannot do such an unfair thing as this but mention that the Common Adricultural Policy is entirely geared to protect Frog farmers and you're 'rocking the boat' etc... David Cameron said no to this new Treaty precisely to stop such regulation of the UKs Financial sector.

    "The European Union is being redesigned, and the French and Germans are quietly ticking off their wishlist. They have long wanted to bind the eurozone closer together, with similar rules on tax and spending. They are now – brilliantly – dressing up this federalist agenda as if it were somehow a solution to the debt crisis. If anyone objects, or points out that it fundamentally changes the nature of the European Union, the federalists tut that Dr Merkozy should not be disturbed midway through a life-saving operation." David Cameron has been infected by Europe’s technocratic disease - Telegraph

    It seems the meerkats have already seen through this: Italian 10yr bonds back to 7% and French banks downgraded today.... Merkozy have FAILED to address the problems, not only in my opinion but clearly in the markets opinions. They have gone for a power grab and sowed the seeds for first Britain and then others to leave the EU.
    Last edited by snapper; 09 Dec 11, at 15:03.

  6. #51
    tankie Military Professional tankie's Avatar
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    Sarkozy looked really miffed when Cameron told em to shove it


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  7. #52
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    No! No! No!

    Long live the Queen!

  8. #53
    tankie Military Professional tankie's Avatar
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    Love her or hate her she was bang on about the euro .


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  9. #54
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    Good bit about this here: Spare us the fibs about the EU and the Euro

    "The Merkel plan for greater fiscal controls will save the Euro.

    Response:

    The Merkel scheme does not suddenly shrink the Greek deficit, or miraculously refinance the large Italian debt. Printing money could buy them a bit of time, but is not conditional on changes to rules and Treaties. Nothing in the Merkel plan solves the twin probems of too much debt and too little competitiveness in the problem countries."

  10. #55
    tankie Military Professional tankie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Good bit about this here: Spare us the fibs about the EU and the Euro

    "The Merkel plan for greater fiscal controls will save the Euro.

    Response:

    The Merkel scheme does not suddenly shrink the Greek deficit, or miraculously refinance the large Italian debt. Printing money could buy them a bit of time, but is not conditional on changes to rules and Treaties. Nothing in the Merkel plan solves the twin probems of too much debt and too little competitiveness in the problem countries."
    Waddya think of this then snapps


    My policies:

    Referendum on EU with Government supporting 'out' vote (saving £18.5 bn per yr)

    Scrap Foreign Aid and replace with it Foreign Bribes - should save at least £2 bn per yr.

    All savings to go re-armament programme (HMS Prince of Wales to be in full operation and update of Trident first) and National Service.

    Let Quakers etc work in Hospitals and such like.


    Invasion of Southern Congo and Northern Angola to be leased to us for 200 yrs for mineral resources via British South Africa Company who can 'lease' our soldiers.



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  11. #56
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    Sounds like a plan!

  12. #57
    tankie Military Professional tankie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Sounds like a plan!
    ya like it huh


    Trust gets you killed, love gets you hurt, and being REAL gets you hated.

  13. #58
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    At least it's a PLAN and not more 'technocratic' money fiddling b*llocks with legal get arounds and money handlers sorting out OUR future.
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    I have to say Iam surprised, perhaps we will see more developments early in the week. I thought the ECB would make a move, but I see now in hindsight they were clearly waiting to see how the summit went. Where are the measures to tackle the sovereign debt?

    bizarre

    is the Merkosy plan really/secretly euro exits for some of the struggling nations in the following year?

    Thoughts?

  15. #60
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    They are going to have your Corporation Tax 'harmonised'/assimilated to the Collective! They seriously expect you and Greece and others to undergo 7-10yrs of recession in order to be assimilited. If you should elect a Government that wishes to break the rules it will be replaced with a Euro-technocracy.
    Last edited by snapper; 09 Dec 11, at 19:40.

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