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Thread: Problem for Military Recruiters: Parents

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    Problem for Military Recruiters: Parents

    Growing Problem for Military Recruiters: Parents

    By DAMIEN CAVE, The New York Times

    http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/arti...03103609990022

    Rachel Rogers, a single mother of four in upstate New York, did not worry about the presence of National Guard recruiters at her son's high school until she learned that they taught students how to throw hand grenades, using baseballs as stand-ins. For the last month she has been insisting that administrators limit recruiters' access to children.

    Orlando Terrazas, a former truck driver in Southern California, said he was struck when his son told him that recruiters were promising students jobs as musicians. Mr. Terrazas has been trying since September to hang posters at his son's public school to counter the military's message.

    Meanwhile, Amy Hagopian, co-chairwoman of the Parent-Teacher-Student Association at Garfield High School in Seattle, has been fighting against a four-year-old federal law that requires public schools to give military recruiters the same access to students as college recruiters get, or lose federal funding. She also recently took a few hours off work to stand beside recruiters at Garfield High and display pictures of injured American soldiers from Iraq.

    "We want to show the military that they are not welcome by the P.T.S.A. in this building," she said. "We hope other P.T.S.A.'s will follow."

    Two years into the war in Iraq, as the Army and Marines struggle to refill their ranks, parents have become boulders of opposition that recruiters cannot move.

    Mothers and fathers around the country said they were terrified that their children would have to be killed - or kill - in a war that many see as unnecessary and without end.

    Around the dinner table, many parents said, they are discouraging their children from serving.

    At schools, they are insisting that recruiters be kept away, incensed at the access that they have to adolescents easily dazzled by incentive packages and flashy equipment.

    A Department of Defense survey last November, the latest, shows that only 25 percent of parents would recommend military service to their children, down from 42 percent in August 2003.

    "Parents," said one recruiter in Ohio who insisted on anonymity because the Army ordered all recruiters not to talk to reporters, "are the biggest hurdle we face."


    Quotes From the Controversy


    "The recruiters are in your face, in the library, in the lunchroom. They're contacting the most vulnerable students and recruiting them to go to war.''
    -- Stephen Ludwig, Seattle parent

    "I had one father say if he saw me on his doorstep I better have some protection on me. We see a lot of hostility.''
    -- Ohio recruiter

    "The point is not whether I support the troops. It's about whether a well-organized propaganda machine should be targeted at children and enforced by the schools."
    -- Rachel Rogers, High Falls, N.Y., parent

    Parents "don't realize that they have a role in helping make the all-volunteer force success. If you don't, you're faced with the alternative, and the alternative is what they were opposed to the most, mandatory service.''
    -- Col. David Slotwinski, ex-chief of staff for Army recruiting

    Source: The New York Times

    Legally, there is little a parent can do to prevent a child over 18 from enlisting. But in interviews, recruiters said that it was very hard to sign up a young man or woman over the strong objections of a parent.

    The Pentagon - faced with using only volunteers during a sustained conflict, an effort rarely tried in American history - is especially vexed by a generation of more activist parents who have no qualms about projecting their own views onto their children.

    Lawrence S. Wittner, a military historian at the State University of New York, Albany, said today's parents also had more power.

    "With the draft, there were limited opportunities for avoiding the military, and parents were trapped, reduced to draft counseling or taking their children to Canada," he said. "But with the volunteer armed force, what one gets is more vigorous recruitment and more opportunities to resist."

    Some of that opportunity was provoked by the very law that was supposed to make it easier for recruiters to reach students more directly. No Child Left Behind, which was passed by Congress in 2001, requires schools to turn over students' home phone numbers and addresses unless parents opt out. That is often the spark that ignites parental resistance.

    Recruiters, in interviews over the past six months, said that opposition can be fierce. Three years ago, perhaps 1 or 2 of 10 parents would hang up immediately on a cold call to a potential recruit's home, said a recruiter in New York who, like most others interviewed, insisted on anonymity to protect his career. "Now," he said, "in the past year or two, people hang up all the time. "

    Several recruiters said they had even been threatened with violence.

    "I had one father say if he saw me on his doorstep I better have some protection on me," said a recruiter in Ohio. "We see a lot of hostility."

    Military officials are clearly concerned. In an interview last month, Maj. Gen. Michael D. Rochelle, commander of Army recruiting, said parental resistance could put the all-volunteer force in jeopardy. When parents and other influential adults dissuade young people from enlisting, he said, "it begs the question of what our national staying power might be for what certainly appears to be a long fight."

    In response, the Army has rolled out a campaign aimed at parents, with television ads and a Web site that includes videos of parents talking about why they supported their children's decision to enlist. General Rochelle said that it was still too early to tell if it is making a difference.

    But Col. David Slotwinski, a former chief of staff for Army recruiting, said that the Army faced an uphill battle because many baby boomer parents are inclined to view military service negatively, especially during a controversial war.

    "They don't realize that they have a role in helping make the all-volunteer force successful," said Colonel Slotwinski, who retired in 2004. "If you don't, you're faced with the alternative, and the alternative is what they were opposed to the most, mandatory service."

    Many of the mothers and fathers most adamant about recruitment do have a history of opposition to Vietnam. Amy Hagopian, 49, a professor of public health at the University of Washington, and her husband, Stephen Ludwig, 57, a carpenter, said that they and many parents who contest recruiting at Garfield High in Seattle have a history of antiwar sentiment and see their efforts as an extension of their pacifism.

    But, he added, parents are also reacting to what they see as the military's increased intrusion into the lives of their children.

    "The recruiters are in your face, in the library, in the lunchroom," he said. "They're contacting the most vulnerable students and recruiting them to go to war."

    The access is legally protected. As recently as 2000, said one former recruiter in California, it was necessary to dig through the trash at high schools and colleges to find students' names and phone numbers. But No Child Left Behind mandates that school districts can receive federal funds only if they grant military recruiters "the same access to secondary school students" as is provided to colleges and employers.


    More From the Times


    · Growing Problem for Military Recruiters: Parents
    · Anger in Cleveland as Fire Is Ruled Arson
    · For Some, a Return Home; for Others, No Home to Go To


    So although the Garfield P.T.S.A. voted last month to ban military recruiters from the school and its 1,600 students, the Seattle school district could not sign on to the idea without losing at least $15 million in federal education funds.

    "The parents have chosen to take a stand, but we still have to comply with No Child Left Behind," said Peter Daniels, communications director for the district. In Whittier, a city of 85,000 10 miles southeast of East Los Angeles, about a dozen families last September accused the district of failing to properly advise parents that they had the right to deny recruiters access to their children's personal information.

    Mr. Terrazas, 51, the father of a Whittier High School junior, said the notification was buried among other documents in a preregistration packet sent out last summer.

    "It didn't say that the military has access to students' information," he said. "It just said to write a letter if you didn't want your kid listed in a public directory."

    A few years ago, after Sept. 11, the issue might not have gotten Mr. Terrazas's attention. His father served in World War II, his brother in Vietnam, and he said that he had always supported having a strong military able to defend the country.

    But after the war in Iraq yielded no weapons of mass destruction, and as the death toll has mounted, he cannot reconcile the pride he feels at seeing marines deliver aid after the tsunami in Asia with his concern over the effort in Baghdad, he said.

    "Because of the situation we're in now, I would not want my son to serve," he said. "It's the policy that I'm against, not the military."

    After Mr. Terrazas and several other parents expressed their concern about the school's role in recruitment, the district drafted a new policy. On May 23, it introduced a proposed opt-out form for the district's 14,000 students.

    The form, said Ron Carruth, Whittier's assistant superintendent, includes an explanation of the law, and boxes that parents can check to indicate they do not want information on their child released to either the military, colleges, vocational schools or other sources of recruitment. Mr. Carruth said that next year the district would also prohibit all recruiters from appearing in classrooms, and keep the military ones from bringing equipment like Humvees onto school grounds, a commonly used recruitment tool.

    He said that some of the information from the 11-by-17-inch poster that Mr. Terrazas sought to post, including how to verify recruiters' claims about financial benefits, will be part of a pamphlet created by the school for students.

    And at least a dozen other districts in the area, Mr. Carruth added, up from three in November, are considering similar plans.

    Unlike Mr. Terrazas, Ms. Rogers, 37, of High Falls in the upper Hudson Valley, had not thought much about the war before she began speaking out in her school district. She had been "politically apathetic," she said. She did not know about No Child Left Behind's reporting requirements, nor did she opt out.

    When her son, Jonah, said he was thinking of sitting out a gym class that was to be led by National Guard recruiters, Ms. Rogers, who works part time as a clerk at the local motor vehicles office and receives public assistance, said she told him not to be "a rebel without a cause."

    "In this world," she recalled telling him, "we need a strong military."

    But then she heard from her son that the class was mandatory, and that recruiters were handing out free T-shirts and key chains - "Like, 'Hey, let's join the military. It's fun,' " she said.

    First she called the Rondout Valley High School to complain about the "false advertising," she said, then her congressman.

    On May 24, at the first school board meeting since the gym class, she read aloud from a recruiting handbook that advised recruiters on ways to gain maximum access to schools, including offering doughnuts. A high school senior, Katie Coalla, 18, stood up at one point and tearfully defended the recruiters, receiving applause from the crowd of about 70, but Ms. Rogers persisted.

    "Pulling in this need for heartstrings patriotic support is clouding the issue," she said. "The point is not whether I support the troops. It's about whether a well-organized propaganda machine should be targeted at children and enforced by the schools."

    Laura Cummins, in Accord, N.Y., contributed reporting for this article.

  2. #2
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    "Rachel Rogers"

    LOL, i used to live with a girl named Rachel Rogers. Real cutie too.

    To the Author: "Legally, there is little a parent can do to prevent a child over 18 from enlisting. "

    Hey ASSSHOLE, there is NO SUCH THING AS A CHILD OVER 17.

    Stupid #$%R@#*$(@* reporters.

    ""We want to show the military that they are not welcome by the P.T.S.A. in this building," she said. "We hope other P.T.S.A.'s will follow.""

    Well good then, perhaps the stupid fuccking PTSA will protect this nation from it's enemies, since they seem to have a problem with our military doing it.

    Stupid fuccking idiots...

    What a frustrating g-damned article.
    Last edited by Bill; 03 Jun 05, at 23:31.

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    All of a sudden, that New Jersey Air National Guard pilot's strafe of a school seems more...understandable.

    Seriously, Sniper said it best: are they going to do anything to defend those little kids? HOW?

    We've seen this anti-military bias before, and the Lefties all swore they had learned their lesson, and that they would never disrespect the troops again. They were ashamed at what they did when the troops came back from Southeast Asia.

    It seems that the conservatives DID learn something from Vietnam, and they have NOT made the same mistakes as were made in that tragic war. There is but one parallel with THIS war and THAT war...and it's the same stupid leftist ideology that insists on 'fighting the last war'.
    "The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
    - George Orwell

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    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    Well this doesn't seem to be as much radical lefties as parents not wanting to have the military talk to their kids.

    Recruiters, in interviews over the past six months, said that opposition can be fierce. Three years ago, perhaps 1 or 2 of 10 parents would hang up immediately on a cold call to a potential recruit's home, said a recruiter in New York who, like most others interviewed, insisted on anonymity to protect his career. "Now," he said, "in the past year or two, people hang up all the time. "
    Doesn't seem radical leftists bend on hurting the USA but people not wanting their kids in Iraq...

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    Well since the overwhelming majority of men in the military vote republican, it is a darned safe bet that they come from conservative families.

    You really don't run into many leftist types in the infantry, i can tell you that much.

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    Just saw Rachel Rogers on The O'Reilly Factor. She ducked his questions about whether she would support her son enlisting to fight terrorists and to fight in WWII. As a point of reference, she puts her younger son (4 or 5 years old) in time out for pointing his finger and going "bang," so now cowboys and indians for him.

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    What the F**k are these people thinking ? I really would hope that in the long run, the administration would have the sack to really pull the funding from the schools that want to push the issue. I do a lot of work with the recruiters from the 104th Fighter Wing here in Mass. We have been trying to start hitting Voch / Tech schools more than regular high schools because thats where the gear heads and pointy heads are. These are the kids that like the mechanical and avionic type areas. Most people have pushed these kids aside as the dregs of the modern school system. We think different. I want the gear heads and the grease monkeys on my jet, not the artsfartsy smarties from prominent high schools. But having said that we have had good response from the teens in voch / tech schools. it is the school administration that doesnt seem to want us there. fancy that. I personally think it is the NEA and prominent families that pull this crap more than just the mainstream middle class families. But thats just my humble opinion.
    "Now we shall have ourselves a pell mell battle!" ......The Immortal Memory, Admiral Nelson

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    "A few years ago, after Sept. 11, the issue might not have gotten Mr. Terrazas's attention. His father served in World War II, his brother in Vietnam, and he said that he had always supported having a strong military able to defend the country.
    But after the war in Iraq yielded no weapons of mass destruction, and as the death toll has mounted, he cannot reconcile the pride he feels at seeing marines deliver aid after the tsunami in Asia with his concern over the effort in Baghdad, he said.
    "Because of the situation we're in now, I would not want my son to serve," he said. "It's the policy that I'm against, not the military.""

    Coward and traitor. One doesn't join the military for a "policy", one joins for the Nation.

    "As a point of reference, she puts her younger son (4 or 5 years old) in time out for pointing his finger and going "bang," so now cowboys and indians for him."

    Disgusting. Normal children should grow up wanting to waste an inordinate amount of enemies in heroic battles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco Lolan
    Coward and traitor. One doesn't join the military for a "policy", one joins for the Nation.
    He has earned the right to feel the way he feels. And it's a right that we in uniform gladly give to him and you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Franco Lolan
    Disgusting. Normal children should grow up wanting to waste an inordinate amount of enemies in heroic battles.
    Normal children should not grow up wanting to kill. I don't EVER want to see my daughter in battle.
    Chimo

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    My parents were also not convinced by me joining National defence acdemy army wing.Airforce and navy are more ok for them

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    99% of the time, I'm safer than the navy or AF. I'm not going to drown nor am I going to crash into the earth at 100 miles an hour.
    Chimo

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    While the military offers many opportunities for young people, especially those who aren't interested in college or could not otherwise afford it. But I share the concern of parents and others that the way in which the military advertises the experience. Yes, you can have almost any job in the military that you'd have as a civilian. But when it comes down to it, they're still gonna send you off to war to die. And that's what this is about I think.... parents seeing past the propaganda, possibly because of their own experiences with war, and realize that beyond the benefits offered, including money and job security, and realizing that maybe their kids don't realize quite what they're getting into.

    At 20, I still have a lot of my immortality complex. I know I have it, and I try to think past it. But its hard for a lot of young people to do that. I'm not one of those people who believe that videogames are necessarily bad just because they portray violence. But perhaps it might reinforce the immortality of young people, used to winning or getting another chance, a restart. People see the flashy action commercials and hear enthusiastic talk from recruiters. I think its important for parents to discuss the military with their children and share their views. It's important for parents to have full knowledge of what access any kind of advertising has on their children. Advertising with any thought has psychology behind it, and can be especially effective. Most parents don't have the resources to create a flashy ad that portrays their experiences and must therefore counteract the military's messages through other means, including the PTA.

    I want to be clear that I do understand the importance of a strong military. But luring young, sometimes naiive people with deceptive appearances is not the way to go about it. A draft would be more fair, instead of the current feeding off of the poorer classes and less advantaged classes.

    Sometimes it is not so much *what* we are doing that is wrong or right, but the way we are doing it.

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    some academic questions:

    1) if someone has to be persuaded to join the military, what kind of soldier/sailor/airman are they going to be?

    a) whats the drop-out/injury rate amongst younger (17 -20 yoa) entrants compared to older entrants?

    b) granted that someone who is 18 is an adult and can make their own descisions, but if said 18 yo is living in mummy and daddy's house, borrowing mummy and daddy's car and eating mummy and daddys food then mummy and daddy are going to have a lot of influence. given that military - and all public service - pay is lower than private sector pay with the added bonus of the increased possibility of being shot, why is parental reluctance surprising?

    c) what on earth is the point of handing out trinkets and offering rides in humvees as an introduction to military life when the reality is very different? surely this discrepency between the adverts and real life increases the dropout rate?


    2) the retired colonel in the piece mentioned the all-volunteer force as being in danger and the return of the draft if parents don't allow/advocate military service. he seems to be making the suggestion that a large military force is an absolute and that the people can choose between a large volunteer force and a conscripted force, but they have to choose one of them. effectively saying you can choose to join or be conscripted - is this not the servant controlling the master?

    as an illustrator, the BA has reduced its school-leaver (16.5 - 18) intake and increased the proportion of 19 - 22 yo recruits because we found that younger soldiers lacked the maturity to really understand what they were getting themselves into, had a higher injury rate during training and both had a higher drop-out rate and left the military earlier than their older counterparts.

    the view in the UK has been that only highly skilled, well-motivated and well lead troops can successfully complete the complex soldiering involved in the WOT and that the army/government needs to cuts its cloth to match its resources. my concern is that soldiers who join without either much intial enthusiasm or a lack of parental support for their choice are unlikely to perform well or stay long in the military. that provides two problems: 1) indisciplined/unmotivated soldiers on the streets of baghdad which can cause serious damage to war-fighting aims, 2) soldiers who cost a fortune to train and who leave quickly and then have to be replaced at additional cost.

    my point is, are the US army trying to recruit the wrong people?
    before criticizing someone, walk a mile in their shoes.................... then when you do criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

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    Actually from a lot of my experiences a lot of young people that dont have parental guidance and experience make great airmen or what have you. To a great many people the military is their family and their support. I dont know how the military works in other countries but I know this,the miltary in the United States is a lot like capitalism. You get out of it only what you put into it. You can be motivated when you come in and have the best education in the world and still be a piece of ****. There are no templates that any one person falls into.
    "Now we shall have ourselves a pell mell battle!" ......The Immortal Memory, Admiral Nelson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers
    He has earned the right to feel the way he feels. And it's a right that we in uniform gladly give to him and you.
    Normal children should not grow up wanting to kill. I don't EVER want to see my daughter in battle.
    LOL. Very true. I was a little impassioned last night. I think that the majority of normal boys should grow up playing militaristic games.

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