US 'shelves Europe missile plan'

**Merlin** · 17 Sep 09, 15:52

Obama just mentioned these on TV. Realist cost cutting is an important reason.

Obama shifting missile defense from Eastern Europe

12 min ago [AP] WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama says he is shifting a planned U.S. missile defense program away from Eastern Europe to other locations.

Plans to build the missile defense system in Poland and the Czech Republic been a major irritant to relations with Russia.

Obama said Thursday the revised program will include anti-missile weapons based on ships and other locations on land.

He said Iran's medium- and short-range missiles are a greater threat than long-range missiles. Obama said the revised program will be cost-effective and based on updated technology and threat assessments.

**Parihaka** · 17 Sep 09, 16:06

Originally Posted by nebula82

I always saw this as more of a strategy to encircle Russia and neutralize their still very potent arsenal. This shield serves no purpose other than to inflame tensions with powers like Russia. Iran is cited as a reason not because they’re a legitimate threat, but just as a cover for the US to increase it’s already bloated global military presence, IMO.

Iran is not a serious threat to Israel, the US or the West. The Iranian leadership may be uncooperative and hostile, but they will not attack. They’re neither stupid nor suicidal.

At least the cancellation of this shield saves some money, too!

The US will probably resort to using a less permanent sea-based missile defence system then?

Nebula82.

Has it occurred to you that this system would be incapable of intercepting a Russian launch as it would be too close to the point of launch and would be on the wrong trajectory path?
That it in fact was precisely what it was claimed to be, a European defence against mid-range Iranian missiles.

Has it occurred to you that Russia is a de-facto ally of Iran?

Has it also occurred to you that a country has no need to develop missiles of the nature of Irans ones if it discounts ever using them?

**zara** · 17 Sep 09, 16:20

Bush always maintained that the missile shield couldn't stop a sustained nuclear assault from a major power like Russia or China, it was designed to stop small scale attacks from the likes of Iran and Korea.

Perhaps Obamas moving to a sea based strategy to intercept a possible strike on Israel?

**Steezy** · 17 Sep 09, 16:21

It's not like the shield would've actually stopped Russia from doing anything. All it did was create useless tension. And it's not like Iran are ever going to seriously go after Europe anyway.

It was much more politics than anything actually militarily useful...

All of this is going to defuse alot of tension and create a better atmosphere for all. But certain people don't like that. I bet there's alot of anger within the contractors who would have gone and built this defence system.

**Parihaka** · 17 Sep 09, 16:24

I'm glad everyone believes Iran will never attack Europe.

I wonder why they're building missiles that can reach that far

**~~hanswu25~~** · 17 Sep 09, 16:39

How would Russia feel and say if instead of the shield in Poland and Czech, USA transfers an Aegis Burke to Black Sea?

**Merlin** · 17 Sep 09, 16:43

Gates was referring to Iran, not Russia.

Gates: US intelligence caused change in plans

30 min ago [AP] WASHINGTON — Defense Secretary Robert Gates says the decision to abandon the Bush administration's plans for a land-based missile defense system in Eastern Europe came about because of a change in the U.S. perception of the threat posed by Iran.

Reinforcing statements President Barack Obama made about anti-missile strategy, Gates told reporters Thursday that U.S. intelligence decided short- and medium-range missiles now pose a greater near-term threat than intercontinental ballistic missiles.

He said intelligence experts concluded the short- and medium-range missiles were "developing more rapidly than previously projected" in Iran. Gates said the previous administration's plans will be changed, moving away from the installation of a missile defense shield in the Czech Republic and Poland in the near future. .....

**zara** · 17 Sep 09, 16:44

Originally Posted by hanswu25

How would Russia feel and say if instead of the shield in Poland and Czech, USA transfers an Aegis Burke to Black Sea?

Probably the same way the US did when Russia put missiles in Cuba.

+ The Russians have a huge fleet in Abkhazia ever since they took it from Georgia

**NUS** · 17 Sep 09, 17:07

Originally Posted by zara

I wonder if Russia will remove its nukes from Kaliningrad?

There was no nukes or ballistic missiles in Kaliningrad. Medvedev said Russia might move Iskander missile complex there if US will place missiles in Poland.

**Parihaka** · 17 Sep 09, 17:07

Originally Posted by hanswu25

How would Russia feel and say if instead of the shield in Poland and Czech, USA transfers an Aegis Burke to Black Sea?

Note the date

The Centre for SouthEast European Studies

**~~hanswu25~~** · 17 Sep 09, 17:29

Originally Posted by Parihaka

Note the date

The Centre for SouthEast European Studies

I wonder will they continue to moan about "NATO's aggression toward Russia"? Georgia is still hot and Ukraine is becoming warmer.

**~~hanswu25~~** · 17 Sep 09, 17:35

Originally Posted by zara

Probably the same way the US did when Russia put missiles in Cuba.

+ The Russians have a huge fleet in Abkhazia ever since they took it from Georgia

You mean they may threaten to strike US base first???

**Bluesman** · 17 Sep 09, 18:47

This thread has seen the stupidest, most puerile commentary on a major Russian/Iranian victory, and a massive US/European defeat that can be imagined.

Of all the things that Obama has managed to wreck in the foreign policy and defense realm, THIS is going to be apocalyptic.

I use that word with full consciousness.

The fact is, Obama has just managed to negate the greatest US advantage in ballistic missile defense against what is now an all but certain fait accompli: Iranian nuclear warheads that someday can, and someday probably will, reach Europe. We GAVE that away; we got NOTHING in return.

And he did it to the strongest of the New Eastern Eurpoean Allies, the Poles and the Czechs. When we asked 'em to help in Iraq, they rangered up. Same for Afghanistan. And with a helluva lot less whining than we got from most of the Old Western Eurpoean Allies, I noticed.

And this is what they get in return.

They took a big gamble on us when they signed up for this deal, and annoyed the hell out of the Russkies. And we just screwed 'em both HARD.

There are a couple of other aspects to this that bear discussing (such as, why do this on the 70th anniversary of the Russian invasion of Poland?). But for now, I'd just like to point out that just about every single one of the countries that have tied themselves to us (Israel) and been there when we asked 'em to (Honduras) are being systematically cut off at the knees by this incompetent buffoon and the most amateur, insane foreign and defense policy that this country has ever seen.

Enemies do not fear us; allies can't count on us. Even Carter wasn't THIS bad. And he was BAAAAAAD.

And we have another three-plus years of this crap to go.

**Silent Hunter** · 17 Sep 09, 19:07

Originally Posted by Bluesman

The fact is, Obama has just managed to negate the greatest US advantage in ballistic missile defense against what is now an all but certain fait accompli: Iranian nuclear warheads that someday can, and someday probably will, reach Europe. We GAVE that away; we got NOTHING in return.

Better relations with the Russians- that's something. Along with rights to resupply Afghanistan through Russia, which will save a lot of fuel costs.

He's still going ahead with it, just in SM-3 form. Iran has only really got the capacity to hit Bulgaria at present anyway.

**Bluesman** · 17 Sep 09, 19:25

Originally Posted by Silent Hunter

Better relations with the Russians- that's something.

Right, because that's how the Russians - or ALL foreign policy realists work: be nice, and the enemy will give you some candy.

Along with rights to resupply Afghanistan through Russia, which will save a lot of fuel costs.

Which is not happening now, and never will, but if it ever did, it gives the Russians a voice, and ultimately the POWER to make our efforts there not only fail, but actually holds our troops hostage to potential enemy.

Bismarck you ain't, friend.

He's still going ahead with it, just in SM-3 form. Iran has only really got the capacity to hit Bulgaria at present anyway.

Oh, well then, nothing to worry about, I suppose.

Is THIS what passes for Brit thinking on American national interest? You're qualified for a 'power' Cabinet post under Obama.

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