NATO Says It Will Continue Eastward Expansion If Desired Despite Russian Actions

**Equilibrium** · 16 Sep 08, 16:56

In a strong message of support for Georgia after its debilitating war with Russia, NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer said "the road to NATO is still wide open" and Russia cannot not break the alliance's ties with the former Soviet republic through military action.

"No other country will have a veto over that process, nor will we allow our strong ties to Georgia to be broken by outside military intervention and pressure," he said. "Georgia has a rightful place in this Europe."

De Hoop Scheffer condemned Russia's recognition of the two separatist regions in Georgia, saying Georgia's sovereignty and territorial integrity must be respected. He also called on Moscow to tone down its rhetoric, but admitted that NATO is "not in the business of punishing Russia" and does not want to be.

NATO: We'll expand despite Moscow's concerns - Europe - MSNBC.com

This seems to be more a reaffirmation of NATO policy more than a decision; whether they actually do follow up on their declarations is another matter altogether.

**Garry** · 17 Sep 08, 12:43

Originally Posted by Equilibrium

NATO: We'll expand despite Moscow's concerns - Europe - MSNBC.com

This seems to be more a reaffirmation of NATO policy more than a decision; whether they actually do follow up on their declarations is another matter altogether.

Hi Equilibrium, I think further expansion is unlikelly. EU is too hesitant to support USA in this expansion. They don't want troubles... and there is little candidates left

Ukraine can not be part of NATO (internal conflict), Georgia would not get approval from EU members. Azerbaijan would face strong Armenian lobby in USA. I think that the only solid candidates are Moldavia... here expansion is possible.

NATO would instead focus on reinforcing Baltic states and Poland.... this is very much likelly!

**Deltacamelately** · 17 Sep 08, 14:10

Poland should be the last milestone. Beyond that, Ukrain, Georgia, Moldavia, Azerbaizan et al, will be way too provocative for the Russians. They won't like to see the NATO machinary in their backyard for sure.

**Proyas** · 17 Sep 08, 23:21

Originally Posted by Deltacamelately

Poland should be the last milestone. Beyond that, Ukrain, Georgia, Moldavia, Azerbaizan et al, will be way too provocative for the Russians. They won't like to see the NATO machinary in their backyard for sure.

I agree with that.

**cyppok** · 18 Sep 08, 01:06

i used to use the same avatar on my space heh

**~~MrFirst~~** · 22 Sep 08, 21:26

In a strong message of support for Georgia after its debilitating war with Russia, NATO Secretary- General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer said "the road to NATO is still wide open" and Russia cannot not break the alliance's ties with the former Soviet republic through military action.

No actions, just empty words.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

**chakos** · 23 Sep 08, 02:09

If Nato continues to make sounds like this then as far as im concerned the Russians should make a bit of a land grab and annexe all these little countries with dreams of joining NATO. Noone will be willing to go to war for a non-NATO Eastern European country. Sure as hell the Western Europeans wouldnt want any part of it.

Put in Friendly governments, give the people some form of Russian citizenship and there you go, secure borders for the next 200 years.

Sounds harsh but you either play the game or you dont. NATO is definately playing the game.

**Ray** · 23 Sep 08, 06:01

Land grabbing by Russia will make things difficult.

They could however choose the easier option - organise 'revolutions'.

The NATO should give 'associate' membership to the countries hugging Russia and that would not get Russia's hackle up!

It would increase the comfort level of the countries hugging Russia's border and yet not appear belligerent in intent.

**Taurkon** · 23 Sep 08, 14:44

Russia should offer NATO candidates highly substidized oil and gas, infastructure grants for a fixed duration of years, along with citizenship as was suggested.

A land grab will only re-enforce the European perception that Russia is becoming the Soviet Union again.

Alternatively, if these NATO candidates reject the offer, crank up the costs or cut off oil and gas supplies altogether and lock down the borders. Cease all trade and let NATO countries foot the bill for the cost of keeping these countries economies alive.

**Dreadnought** · 23 Sep 08, 14:57

Originally Posted by Taurkon

Russia should offer NATO candidates highly substidized oil and gas, infastructure grants for a fixed duration of years, along with citizenship as was suggested.

A land grab will only re-enforce the European perception that Russia is becoming the Soviet Union again.

Alternatively, if these NATO candidates reject the offer, crank up the costs or cut off oil and gas supplies altogether and lock down the borders. Cease all trade and let NATO countries foot the bill for the cost of keeping these countries economies alive.

Two problems with that:

1) Who the hell wants to belong to them. We already saw just how these "citizens" rapidly appear overnight with fresh passports whose ink wasnt even dry yet when they were conviscated. (2000 of them at last check)

2) Russia doesnt own nor produce all of the energy supplies within the region. Thats exactly why Georgia was so important to them and NATO protect them from Russian influence. The new lines will run through Georgia from the Caspian Sea. So all they have to offer is citizenship which dont equate to very much at all in the big picture.

**Mercenary** · 23 Sep 08, 14:58

Originally Posted by Taurkon

A land grab will only re-enforce the European perception that Russia is becoming the Soviet Union again.

That is exactly what Putin and comrades want to happen..the revival of the old feared soviet war machine... if you've noticed..Russian PR hasn't gone on the defensive for quite some time...only sentences like - "Poland will get a response..","Georgia was asking for it..","Our fleet will remain in Cremia" "Our missiles will aim at the countries that install components of the US shield"..etc... instead of more diplomatic comments... clearly the intent is there..

the last time i heard something as aggressive in an int'l context was a chinese military general saying-"Los angeles will be up in flames if US interferes in Taiwan"..

**Mercenary** · 23 Sep 08, 15:02

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

Two problems with that:

1) Who the hell wants to belong to them. We already saw just how these "citizens" rapidly appear overnight with fresh passports whose ink wasnt even dry yet when they were conviscated. (2000 of them at last check)

The passports dont look like they were forced down upon the citizens..Ppl in S.Ossettia,Abkhazia and Cremia clearly are pro-russian..they don't need to give any explanation to the world as to why they are so..

2) Russia doesnt own nor produce all of the energy supplies within the region. Thats exactly why Georgia was so important to them and NATO protect them from Russian influence. The new lines will run through Georgia from the Caspian Sea. So all they have to offer is citizenship which dont equate to very much at all in the big picture.

Angering russia for a "friend"/s who is/are a lot further away isn't in the best interest of anyone in the region.....the region is treading a delicate tight-rope

**Dreadnought** · 23 Sep 08, 15:17

Originally Posted by Mercenary

The passports dont look like they were forced down upon the citizens..Ppl in S.Ossettia,Abkhazia and Cremia clearly are pro-russian..they don't need to give any explanation to the world as to why they are so..

Angering russia for a "friend"/s who is/are a lot further away isn't in the best interest of anyone in the region.....the region is treading a delicate tight-rope

So you didnt find it funny that Russia rushed in (proven to be already on the way) mind you by various sources. To rescue all of these "overnight citizens" with all brand new papers. (guess they were just replacing their worn out ones huh)

The least they could have done was make it more convincing for the eyes that dont know what went on.

It's the countries right to anger Russia if she chooses to do so. Russia dont own her and they have zero say in her joining NATO.

**Mercenary** · 23 Sep 08, 15:31

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

So you didnt find it funny that Russia rushed in (proven to be already on the way) mind you by various sources. To rescue all of these "overnight citizens" with all brand new papers. (guess they were just replacing their worn out ones huh)

The least they could have done was make it more convincing for the eyes that dont know what went on.

Nope..I don't think its funny..Georgia tried to "annex" S.Ossettia..started un-provoked shelling and moved battalions of troops into S.Ossettia.. Russia did the right thing in my opinion..As for the 'papers'..well...don't matter if they were printed the previous evening.. but they certainly did reflect what the people wanted...isn't that all that matters really!

as for the missile defence system/NATO membership..it is clearly targetting russia.. they have everyright to bully the countries into backing out of this..
If every country has the right to do what it pleases..then Cuba and Venezuela ..especially the latter(judging by the course of their relationship)..will probably be glad to have Russia station a few nuclear missiles on their soil.. does that mean USA will be okay with it..?..following your argument..USa doesn't own venezuela..so it has every right to do so

**BD1** · 23 Sep 08, 17:02

Originally Posted by Mercenary

Nope..I don't think its funny..Georgia tried to "annex" S.Ossettia..started un-provoked shelling and moved battalions of troops into S.Ossettia.. Russia did the right thing in my opinion..As for the 'papers'..well...don't matter if they were printed the previous evening.. but they certainly did reflect what the people wanted...isn't that all that matters really!

as for the missile defence system/NATO membership..it is clearly targetting russia.. they have everyright to bully the countries into backing out of this..
If every country has the right to do what it pleases..then Cuba and Venezuela ..especially the latter(judging by the course of their relationship)..will probably be glad to have Russia station a few nuclear missiles on their soil.. does that mean USA will be okay with it..?..following your argument..USa doesn't own venezuela..so it has every right to do so

Georgia did the same thing as Russia in 1994 - tried to re-establish central power over rebellious province(s). Check out some news about the un-provoked part- the mortar shelling from S.O to Georgia, shooting down of Georgian drones over their recognised territory etc.. And they moved batallions within their own recognized borders.
Now Rus. has annexed another countrys territory and shows that it´s more than willing to get everything that is up for grabs.
And about US/Rus. comparison - well as far as i´ve seen the US-ians are seen generally by their neighours as dumb gringos/capitalist swines whatever else, but Russia to it´s neighbours is generally a bloody tyrant/murderer/ deporter - i see a little difference here.
Perhaps you don´t?

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