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Reply With Quoteman, every country has her own timothy mcveigh or two, don't it.Originally Posted by Geralt
what do you think russia's designs for poland are exactly (russia's best case magical scenario)?
Woland - there is nothing more Russia´s neighbours could want than Russia´not caring´about us. It´s Russia caring part we don´t like.
oh and - 4a. If you'll be ever speaking to a Russian, please don't tell him/her he/she wants to restore USSR. It is the same as you would call him/her an idiot. As I stated somewhere above, it's a personal insult - no jokes.
It´s russians who are insulting themselves. During riots of 2007 one of the looters most loved chants was ´USSR forever!´
If i only was so smart yesterday as my wife is today
Minding your own biz is great virtue, but situation awareness saves lives - Dok
man, every country has her own timothy mcveigh or two, don't it.
what do you think russia's designs for poland are exactly (russia's best case magical scenario)?
How about knocking that chip of your shoulder. You're the new guy here. You have not earn the privilege of throwing your weight around yet.
Chimo
I guess you meant me, so - even though I don't know exactly what I did wrong or said untrue except being a new guy here what you mentioned - I'm going to refrain from any further answers in this topic for the next 24 hours or so, to see what the results of this discussion are! Is that OK with you?
What is NOT ok with me is your frequent use of stupid, stereotypical, idiotic, and idiots. Half of your posts got some good points, the other half is just pure rage. I would really appreciate it if you just stick to the facts.
Chimo
OK, so I'm going to avoid the adjectives and let the facts speak for themselves!
Basically whatever I say doesn't matter weather its' factual or not because I am an agent of the Kremlin?
I like rational negotiation, which isn't happening now. For the past 20 years about Russia has done most of the things it was asked to do, and it didn't get much in return. Not economic integration by speedier acceptance into WTO, nor common sense acceptance of some of its concerns regarding Nato and other issues.
Russia did a lot of foolish things invading Afghanistan was one of them, invading Georgia was not. If the Caucus would have exploded and it would have since those mountain people recognize blood feuds that go on forever there would have been a state of war for the next several years that would have been undecided with Russia suffering for the actions of another country. (please look up what happened the previous time Georgia attacked one of these republics before Russia's involvement the confederation of mountain people agreed to aid the Abkhaz.) Unless Georgian's killed everyone of the other ethnicity in both republics they were not getting them back end of story.
Getting back to the thread, I would like to know your opinion on the following.
The situation in Ukraine is very unstable right now would you support them joining Nato if the populous was against it for the majority at least say 70% if a referendum was held and the President applied for Map without regard for their wishes and the country went to shambles because of it? Because some parts of your arguments are very rageful idealism without pragmatism to realities. Just like the communists when they came to power trying to enlighten the dark and the foolish weather they want to or not, because they "knew best".
Originally from Sochi, Russia.
Let's say there's a coup in Poland in which a pro-Russian government/president is instated. The populous is enraged, there's civic unrest. The new putsch declares martial law and rolls troops out. (Again, magically NATO doesn't get involved aside from angry statements). Next, the new gov't takes Poland out of NATO and pulls out of the missile base agreement with the US. Then it asks for "support" from Moscow and allows for Russian tanks to be back on Polish soil.
Now what?! What's the point? How would this benefit Moscow aside from acquiring new "friendly" neighbor?
USSR was somewhat "doctrinally expansionist" in order to spread the wonders of communism across the planet (or at least had to appear as such). Does Russia today need this imperialist headache? If so, why? Any ideas appreciated.
What a piece of <self-censored>? Russia today doesn't care about foreign countries, as long as they do not cause any trouble.
There's no point, and there's hardly any point in your post.What's the point?
Господин Иванов, please don't misunderstand me. There's a talk of Russia getting back to her "imperialist" roots. I just don't see it, that's my whole bloody pointThis is why I've come up with this far-fetched scenario. Having said that, perhaps there's something I might've overlooked. This is why I offer the question to folks around here.
Now, I do believe that there always will be shouting matches between paranoid patriots on every side. I'd rather not be part of that one
The point of any empire is (as I see it) - you expand and use the subjugated territories/economies/people so your own citizens are more prosperous. Citizens of Rome had a high standard of living cause they used foreign slaves&resources; British Empire, US Empire are all the same with different images. Russian Empire, on the contrary, was something strange in its roots - native citizens of Russia were oppressed more than the subjugated nations; the economy of the empire was based on agriculture - which used the labor of native Russian peasants who lived no better than slaves - while the subjugated nations were living as they liked (usually).
When this mass of slaves was "allowed free" in the middle of 19th century, they were left without any land and actually forced to move to cities and work on factories - whoa, for free again. So we got the revolution and... just another strange "empire" with the economy drove by free labor of its own citizens.
The only thing that is brought up by the fact of successful wars of Russian Empire is my patriotic feelings. Okay may I trade half of them for Mercedes S500 please?
Healthy part of Russian society thinks the same - we need time to make our government as healthy.
Err, riots of 2007 are treated like gay parads here. Or you mean riots in your country? I don't know, maybe you should treat Estonian Russians as equal people to make a start?
Geralt - I'm not interested in people having the Absolute Knowledge of the Absolute Truth - good luck in your further quest of an internet tough guy.
Last edited by Woland; 22 Sep 08, at 06:17.
That's how it is.So according to you we are all wrong if we say anything you disagree with? We are agents of foreign govts while you are the beacon of light exposing the darkness?
I am certain that if Lviv was to vote to join the Polish nation you would consider that their democratic righteousness, but if Donetsk voted to join Russia then they are misguided falsificators of elections who should do the "right thing" which is what suits you and not their interests.
Funny, what?
All I can observe is that we all are reaching dangerous level of intolerance!
"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."
I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.
HAKUNA MATATA
But you have running water, electricity, internet, TV, and a proud and strong people.
Chimo
I have it cause my parents worked well, not cause we have a huge territory.
Proud and strong people - hrm, yes, ones that aren't alcoholics are strong, true. It may be another benefit of the wars.
Last edited by Woland; 22 Sep 08, at 07:08.
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