Thread: GEORGIA AN EXAMPLE !!! The BEAR is out of HIBERNATION

Originally Posted by xerxes

The discussion does not really concern me but ...

I consider both Brig Ray and Mister Zraver, to be two of the few - most unbiased people in this board, ever. ... and I am speaking from the position of neutrallity.

There is no need to fight. It brings the worse out of people.

Regards to both

Xerxes,

Please put out the platter of milk.

Do note: I am yet to see on this Forum the words - Us or Them!

Therefore, such tommy rot as disrespect to American posters on an American board or words to that effect, rankles and irritates me.

If the Forum stated that the facts contrary to US is not allowed, then that would be a different matter!

But this board has been more than fair in its dealing and these jingos are giving it a bad name!

It is a great forum and I wish it remains so!

I seriously object to be called anti American just because I don't get overwhelmed by false jingosim of others and look at issue pragmatically.

I have supported Iraq, which many, including the Americans, have not supported.

I support Iraq not by emotional claptrap and hyperbole, but from a pragmatic military analysis.

I reject the rationale trotted out since they are bogus.

But from the US perspective of the global strategy, it was a brilliant move!

Originally Posted by brokeraz

Because whoever f*s it (Middle East) up won't be getting the votes, regardless of policy positions.

You have a major disconnect here. Either the US is too busy in the Middle East to worry about Georgia or she has more than enough attention to expand NATO and take care of the ME. Which is it?

I actually think Russia improved it's position in the Ukraine due to the Georgian event. The nationalists are fighting with the populists (Yushenko's party and Timoshenko's respectively) while the regionalists just look on. The problem with bickering these past few years is that the common man on the street hates the gov't more and more seeing its posturing as a way to do nothing.
Asia Times Online :: Central Asian News and current affairs, Russia, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan

The problem with biased one sidedness is that when you are wrong or at least perceived wrong it makes your future words more and more hollow. Kuchma speaking out lately saying that it is very foolish to take a side in the conflict where by you sacrifice neutrality and the ability of future negotiation. Can't find the article.

BBC NEWS | Europe | Russia to keep forces at key port

Gen Nogovitsyn admitted that Poti, 32km (20 miles) south of Abkhazia, was outside this zone.

The general accused Nato of increasing tensions by massing forces in the Black Sea. He said the arrival of Spanish, German, US and Polish ships in the Black Sea "did not contribute to the settlement of the situation".

What do you think does the sea force contribute to the settlement of the situation?

I don't need to read you re-phrase your ASSERTION. I understand fully but it's irrelevant as stand-alone commentary. Trust me when I write that you've no independant credibility to make such an assertion in any way meaningful about our national security objectives for Russia.

Zero value. None. Zilch. Nada. In fact, you're polluting this thread with your presence.

Originally Posted by Ray

Zraver,

You are indeed an amusing sort of a fellow.

A great interlude for relief in a serious discussion!

But for you, life would not be the same.



Evidence it is not?

I hope you had your reading glasses when you read my posts!

20/20 vision

I am sure you believe that in part of my world we have no mirrors! We go to the village pond to see the reflection, right? Can you answer to the point, which you can't since you have no leg to stand on. Cut the glib smart Aleck stuff!

Nice now you call me a racist, where did I ever imply that India was in any way backwards?

Please read your words:



I agree that English is not my mother tongue, so what does the above mean? To me it looks like you are claiming to be Atlas, the primordial Titan who supported the heavens!!

it means what it says, the US funds the UN and gives the most charity. If we only about enriching ourselves that would not be the case.

You grudge that of the UK, Russia and China?

no i don't, you brought it up.

The issue of debate here was you condescension that the US spread its money around and all are ungrateful wretches.

Where did I ever imply the wordl was ungrateful?

I said it is quid pro quo.

And your still wrong. If it was quid pro quo then the US should ahve far more influence in the UN than its does. That the UN so often sides against US interests and yet the US still funds it should say something if you take your blinders off.

I said if you want to be a "leader of the world", you have to "buy" that leadership since there are many other contenders to the Throne!

You assume the US wants to rule the world.

That is your impression. Ask those who get that aid.

Lets do that, we can ask Thais and people from Indonesia who drank US supplied freshwater after the Tsunami. Or people who got anti-aids drugs in Africa. We can ask them if any strings were attached when the US saved their lives. We can even ask Iranian earthquake victims who were helped by US aid if the US tied strings to them.

Please let us not delude ourselves.

All those operations by the US was in its national interests. Please also do a comparative study of the US might vs these tiny nations, if indeed they were nations of worth! So the Bay of Pigs is a CIA ops and the US President was hibernating!! Let's get real. If the CIA was such a power by itself, then why blame the ISI in Pakistan? You seem to be the type who wants to have his cake and eat it too!! Not cricket, old boy!

We reformed the CIA, Pakistan did not reform the ISI.

US left and went where?

What are you talking about?

With the exception of Gitmo, there are zero US troops anywhere in the world where the legal government does not wish them there.

I enjoy your self delusion!

Russia standing aside!

They have ensured a buffer zone and has gone deeper into Georgia than before! That is standing aside? They have not left Poti. That is standing aside?

Funny way to "stand aside"!

And they are smelling of roses since they are "withdrawing". Some withdrawal indeed!

What the impacts that follow from this war.

No riposte from your side to my comments above?

No need to comment on it, intelligence officers may very well be part of it, or they may not.

Russia does not appear to be losing. Poland has scampered for US and not NATO protection, Ukraine is quivering and so on!

Saw how Sakarlozy and Merkel ran?

Losing?

You are a dreamer?

What can Russia do to Poland now without inviting war by the US? If the Ukraine joins then what. What if Belarus begins to form a new NAM to be free of Russia?

I like the Americans and make no mistake about that.

no you don't.

I dislike arrogant and ignorant Americans that you typify who feel that others are sub human and have no self respect and should kowtow to such mortals as you! Why, because you delude yourself as Atlas, without realising that we also serve who stand and wait!

You've attached a lot of labels to me, carry to support any of them with something I have actually posted?

Are you suggesting that just because Americans run the forum, there will be no honest discussion that might not be in favour of Americans like you?

Red Herring, never said anythign even remotely like that, never implied it either.

If truth and facts are to be suppressed to use this forum as a showcase for the USA, then why are you such a champion in criticising China? You have gone ballistics of the Chinese gymnast's age just because they are winning hands down?

I never called for truth to be suppressed. Secondly I went ape over China cheating, not winning. The Chinese women divers smoked the US divers on pure technique. They didn't need to cheat to win.

I am possibly the harshest critics of CCP and Communist China, but even so, I don't run away from the truth! I have congratulated them for their dazzling performance and yet, I am sure this will be a wake up call for the USA! You said that a military man cannot want level playing field. Sorry, take me to be the exception. I appreciate where appreciation is due and am not blind as a bat with false loyalty!

maybe not with loyalty, but you are blinded by your bias.

I would have f&cked myself. But physically that is not feasible for normal human beings, but then knowing your perseverance for the impossible, I am sure you are in both Riply's Believe it or Not and in the Guiness Book of Records.

Your post indicates your misplaced arrogance and ignorance of the world at large!

keep throwing your insults since you lack evidence.

You are one of the most biased people I have ever come across.

If you think I am a pig so be it.

I won't stoop to your level that deserves total contempt since it indicates the absence of upbringing!

Ray, I descended to your level, your the one who popped off with the insults.

Originally Posted by cyppok

BBC NEWS | Europe | Russia to keep forces at key port

What do you think does the sea force contribute to the settlement of the situation?

Since the ships are lightweights its not really massing forces. Russia is simply trying to look tough, they are already being forced to stand by as USAF craft fly into Georgia at will. Thier posturing is for domestic consumption. In the end I think it will backfire on them and they will lose more internationally.

Originally Posted by snapper

Well Sir your "peacekeeping" failed. As to why Russia should regard itself as a suitable 'peacekeeper' in the region where was already having serious disagreements with Georgia surely if they had indeed been there for peace they should have got out. The idea of NATO peacekeepers there would no doubt be viewed as an infrigement toward Russia - why then did the Russians keep peacekeepers in an area where Russian 'peacekeepers' are evidently not unbiased? I thought the nature of peacekeepers was to be neutral?

Our peacekeepers were neutral enough. They kept the status quo during the last 16 years and they didn't allow massacres during this time. And I have to repeat - our peacekeeping forces were situated there according the peace agreement between Georgia and Ossetia. Georgia signed this agreement in 1992.
Why the peace was broken?
Because the Georgians attacked Ossetia in the night August, 8. Because the US and other countries armed the Georgian troops and because the US advisers trained them. Because the US always supported Saakashvili and encouraged him against Russia. And this unwise guy thought he is strong enough to implement his butcher's idea. He is mad, I've always told about that.
Nevertheless the peace forcing operation was effective enough as the Georgian troops had left the conflict zone.

Originally Posted by snapper

The truth is that Georgia never attacked Russia nor had the means to harm her. Undoubtedly what the Goergians did was a. foolish and b. badly done but if Russia saw this a real threat then paranoia is rife there - you cannot believe that they intended to invade Russia surely? The Georgian actions in South Ossetia were not wise but a flee cannot seriously harm an elephant.

The truth is that Georgia has already attacked Russia when the Georgian troops shelled the camp of Russian peace-keepers in Tskhinval in the morning August, 8, and killed 12 of them. That was foolish and that was badly indeed but the fact is that they've done that.

Should I trust your words and do not trust my eyes?

- No, Georgia cannot attack Russia.
- That's incredible.
- This is little country, we are big country, this is impossible.

But then who killed our soldiers?????????

Originally Posted by MrFirst

Because the Georgians attacked Ossetia in the night August, 8. Because the US and other countries armed the Georgian troops and because the US advisers trained them. Because the US always supported Saakashvili and encouraged him against Russia. And this unwise guy thought he is strong enough to implement his butcher's idea. He is mad, I've always told about that.

SO rebels armed by Moscow broke the peace and the Russian peace keepers did nothing. Just like they did not stop the looting by SO rebels. Instead Russia gave them passports.

.

Originally Posted by brokeraz

"Neo-facist bozo" - wow :/. I guess I really got to you, though it's not my intent. You're a grown up,


On what do you base that assumption? He's forever throwing hissy fits and angling for anyone who disagrees with him to be banned. Doesn't act like a grown up. He feels that his opinion is the only valid one and (as you have also found) swiftly resorts to snide remarks. Interesting fact: when he starts slagging someone off, watch him creep to others! His modus operandi is painfully obvious!

you'll get over it.

This is wishful thinking on your part, brokeraz as I see no evidence to back your words.


As far as the document you've referred to, it's primarily a source of guidance for 'middle-management'. What actually occurs may be a different story.

"Meanwhile I patiently await that definitive declaration of America's intent to roll up the bear once n' for all." - I don't think it will be neatly laid out for you in some periodical. I sense a bias in placing too much weight into an academian circle-j*rk.

Originally Posted by xerxes

I consider both Brig Ray and Mister Zraver, to be two of the few - most unbiased people in this board, ever. ... and I am speaking from the position of neutrallity.

In respect of Zraver this is the funniest thing I've ever heard here.

Zraver - unbiased person! Ha-ha!!!
This is a joke, yes?..

Originally Posted by zraver

SO rebels armed by Moscow broke the peace and the Russian peace keepers did nothing. Just like they did not stop the looting by SO rebels. Instead Russia gave them passports.

Rebels? Who is rebels there? As far as I understand you mean Ossetians as "rebels". So, when and there the Ossetians broke the peace? Maybe they shelled Tbilisi with MLRS like the Georgians did?

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

You have a major disconnect here. Either the US is too busy in the Middle East to worry about Georgia or she has more than enough attention to expand NATO and take care of the ME. Which is it?

I don't see a reason why US can't attempt to do both. As far as priority ranking goes I'd say Middle East is more important. I'm not sure what you're trying to say as far as my "conspiracy theory" though.

Originally Posted by MrFirst

In respect of Zraver this is the funniest thing I've ever heard here.

Zraver - unbiased person! Ha-ha!!!
This is a joke, yes?..

Not really, I have my biases, but they tend to be based on evidence and history not simply gut feeling or propaganda. I am also quite capable of taking my own country to task. No one is free of bias, but I try not to be blinded by mine.

In so far as you are concerned, I am very biased against Russia. History if nothing else predicts the reformation of the Russian empire and current events and attitudes support this. If Russia really recognized her neighbors rights to freedom she would not care who they wanted to partner with. But if those neighbors make a move that lessens Russia's ability to impose her will on them- Russia calls it a threat. I am also fond of Poland, I have found the Poles to be a wonderful people and if I could visit just one more place and then die it would be the Salt Mine Cathedral in Krakow. So if nothing else, my fondness for Poland prejudices me against Russia. Finally, I am a Cold Warrior. When I enlisted the CW was still on and Soviets were the bad guys.

Originally Posted by S-2

I don't need to read you re-phrase your ASSERTION. I understand fully but it's irrelevant as stand-alone commentary. Trust me when I write that you've no independant credibility to make such an assertion in any way meaningful about our national security objectives for Russia.

Zero value. None. Zilch. Nada. In fact, you're polluting this thread with your presence. Color me gone.

You are free not to read my posts. (you've misspelled "independent" btw).

You are free to have your own opinion - it does not interest me. Accusing posters of being a "Fascist bozoe" makes me wonder how you managed to make it this far though. Knock it off and get over it.