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Thread: After Gorshkov, Russia demands more money again

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    Senior Contributor Yusuf's Avatar
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    After Gorshkov, Russia demands more money again

    :: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::

    India's search for an advanced jet trainer (AJT) took an agonising two decades before the Hawk was finally purchased from UK major, BAE Systems. But the wait for an intermediate jet trainer (IJT) — which will replace the Indian Air Force's (IAF's) venerable Kiran trainer — could be half that time. Designed and built in India by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), the Bangalore-headquartered Indian defence PSU, the sleek HJT-36 Sitara has used a combination of indigenous design and international purchases to vault from the drawing board to the runway at a speed unmatched in contemporary aircraft development.

    On Saturday, the Sitara IJT passed an important milestone. The newly-developed Russian AL-55I engine — which was specially designed by Russian engine maker, NPO Saturn, to power the Sitara — was successfully tested in a ground run at HAL.

    But the jubilation has a bitter edge. Even as the Bangalore complex celebrates, it is dealing with a Russian demand for more money. NPO Saturn claims that it has spent more time and money on developing the AL-55I engine than it had bargained for, and that manufacturing technology will only be transferred to India if HAL pays NPO Saturn an extra $64 million, over and above the contracted amount. The Russian company had beaten out French engine maker Snecma in 2005, in the $350-million contract to design the AL-55I engine and transfer technology to build it in India.

    Top Ministry of Defence (MoD) sources are furious; they allege Russia is repeating what it did with the Gorshkov aircraft carrier. HAL's design chief is in Moscow trying — so far unsuccessfully to persuade NPO Saturn to lower its demands.

    Russia's ambassador to New Delhi, Vyacheslav Trubnikov acknowledges, that NPO Saturn has asked for more money, but he told Business Standard that he expects an amicable resolution of this issue. Trubnikov said, "Both sides are engaged in the fixing of the price. I don't think the question is extraordinary. Discussions are in progress on the question of how many engines India will be allowed to manufacture."

    Sources in HAL, however, point out that all these issues had been settled as a part of the original contract between HAL and NPO Saturn. Adding to India's frustration is the role of Russia's state-owned arms agency, Rosoboronexport, which has been telling HAL that it should pay up quietly.

    As with the Gorshkov aircraft carrier, for which Russia cited cost overruns to double the contracted price to $1.2 billion, India has little choice but to pay up. MoD sources point out that even with the extra $64 million added on, NPO Saturn's price will be less than what Snecma quoted. They also grudgingly accept that Russia is the only major arms manufacturer that actually transfers all the technology to India that is demanded in a contract. But the biggest reason for paying up quietly is that the IJT programme, which has already waited three years for this engine, will face a delay of several more years if it launches an international search for another engine.

    While waiting for the AL-55I engine to be developed, India has flown the IJT with an interim engine, the French Larzac power plant, which was never powerful enough for the Sitara. The AL-55I generates 20 per cent more power than the Larzac and also consumes appreciably less fuel per flying hour.

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    To be honest, who didn't see this coming?

    Though I would have suspected the Russkies would have tried holding hostage the frigates they're building in St. Petersburg.

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    Senior Contributor Yusuf's Avatar
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    The frigates are still under construction and there is still sometime left for the scheduled delivery. The bombshell will come just a few months before that.

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    we never learn do we?

    lets get vijay mallya to buy all the vodka distilleries and deny them vodka that'll teach them

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    Quote Originally Posted by bengalraider View Post
    we never learn do we?

    lets get vijay mallya to buy all the vodka distilleries and deny them vodka that'll teach them
    Bengal we never learn from our mistakes, but we dont have a engine maker yet. We need to get many things started. :(

    No more vodka for them. Would start WW3. Fire Ze missles.)

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    All new Senior Contributor sohamsri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bengalraider View Post

    lets get vijay mallya to buy all the vodka distilleries and deny them vodka that'll teach them
    Super idea !!!
    " THe SiLEnt KNighT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sohamsri View Post
    Super idea !!!
    I think we should buy rolls royce.

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    All new Senior Contributor sohamsri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dude View Post
    I think we should buy rolls royce.
    I actually think, we have a chance at that.....after 10 years.
    " THe SiLEnt KNighT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sohamsri View Post
    I actually think, we have a chance at that.....after 10 years.
    why ten years get it into mukesh ambani's head and he can buy it tomorrow cmon the guy can afford to build a 2bil$ home in mumbai he can buy rolls royce

    on a serious note we need to start looking at reasons for this and solutions i mean if the Russians are going to do this with every contract they no longer remain the lowest bidder ,now Saturn want 64mil$ extra tomorrow they will want 100mil$ more we should rope snecma in as fast as we can.
    Last edited by bengalraider; 25 Jun 08, at 04:52.

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    Senior Contributor Yusuf's Avatar
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    Snecma's quoted price is higher than the additional $64million that the Russians are demanding. If you see the pattern, they quote less to secure an order, get the advance, get India deeply committed to a project money wise and then blackmail into getting more money.
    But as the gentleman says, only the Russians part with technology. So we will be depended on the Russians for a long time to come till we get our own tech.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yusuf View Post
    Snecma's quoted price is higher than the additional $64million that the Russians are demanding. If you see the pattern, they quote less to secure an order, get the advance, get India deeply committed to a project money wise and then blackmail into getting more money.
    But as the gentleman says, only the Russians part with technology. So we will be depended on the Russians for a long time to come till we get our own tech.
    Well Yes thats very true. Snecma will cost more is a fact. Another fact that Russia is one willing to give full ToT, but how long can they blackmail us.

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    now even the europeans are resddy to give us complate tech transfer , eurofighter consortium has offered to make india a partner nation.

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    Senior Contributor Yusuf's Avatar
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    But they are still very expensive.India has to decide if it wants to shell out more for a reliable partner or stick with an increasingly unreliable one

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    Quote Originally Posted by bengalraider View Post
    now even the europeans are resddy to give us complate tech transfer , eurofighter consortium has offered to make india a partner nation.
    I know that, but what are the chances we will buy the EF2000. I have a gut feeling that we will buy the Russia's plane. As Yusuf said that they cost alot, but i want the Eurofughter to win it. From it we will gain many things. Even the next fighter they will make. Which we will have a say in it. Its time to smack some sense into russia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dude View Post
    Another fact that Russia is one willing to give full ToT, but how long can they blackmail us.
    Till such time that we dont pull our socks and address problems with indegenious R&D Programs,else specify alternatives

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