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Thread: Russia Wants To Sell Greece Weapons As Well As Gas

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    Ray
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    Russia Wants To Sell Greece Weapons As Well As Gas

    RUSSIA WANTS TO SELL GREECE WEAPONS AS WELL AS GAS


    By John C. K. Daly

    Thursday, December 20, 2007

    Following the defeat of German General Erwin Rommel’s vaunted Afrika Corps in North Africa in 1943, British Prime Minister Winston Churchill pressed for a subsequent Allied invasion of either Italy, the Balkans, or Greece, arguing that the regions represented the “soft underbelly of Europe” to forestall Soviet moves there. Sixty years later, it would seem that Gazprom, rather than the Red Army, has made significant inroads into both Italy and Greece, only this time, the weapon is natural gas and oil sales.

    Quite aside from the issue of energy dependency, the Russian Federation is in discussions with Greece to sell it significant amounts of military equipment, a first for a NATO ally.
    What discreet pressure Washington and the European Union can bring to bear on Athens remains to be seen, with Turkey as an additional observer anxiously concerned about Greece’s "weapons and pipelines" diplomacy.

    At the heart of Washington and Ankara’s anxiety is the proposed South Stream natural gas pipeline, projected to deliver Russian gas under the Black Sea to Bulgaria and then onward through Greece, Italy, and other European Union states. A Burgas-Alexandroupolis oil pipeline is also in the works.

    Greek Prime Minister Costas Karamanlis, on his second official visit to Russia this year, is building upon the momentum gained since he announced Greece's participation in the South Stream project on June 23. Six months ago Gazprom and Italian energy company ENI signed an agreement for a pipeline from Russia's Krasnodar Beregovaya compressor station under the Black Sea to Bulgaria, with two subsequent branches via Romania and Hungary to Austria and Slovenia and via Greece to southern Italy. The pipeline would have an annual capacity of 30 billion cubic meters (Prime-Tass, December 18).

    Cooperation on South Stream and other energy projects is proceeding apace. The Russian government monopoly Transneft issued a press release stating that Russia, Bulgaria, and Greece had initialed an accord to create a company to build the Burgas-Alexandroupolis oil pipeline bypassing the Bosporus, an adroit piece of diplomacy that undercuts Turkey’s complaints about the Bosporus and Dardanelles being turned into a tanker superhighway for Russian and Kazakh oil exports (Interfax, December 18). In a now familiar pattern of Russian energy-export hardball, under the terms of the agreement Russia will have a 51% stake in the company. The South Stream pipeline is to come on stream in 2013 and Russian President Vladimir Putin told reporters that Gazprom may extend its gas supply contract with Greece until 2040, after the current contract expires, doubling its deliveries. To put Putin’s proposals in perspective, in January-August 2006 Gazprom’s gas exports to Greece totaled a paltry 1.65 billion cubic meters.

    For his part Karamanlis was effusive about his meetings with Putin, telling journalists, "The historic ties between our countries are getting stronger, especially in the sphere of energy, which is particularly important for us."

    If the issue of Greece providing a conduit for southern Europe, thereby increasing energy dependence on Russian natural gas, is not a worrying prospect, the growing cooperation between Russia and Greece in the military sphere is an additional cause for anxiety.

    Putin is upbeat about increased Russian-Greek military cooperation, telling reporters, "Russia does not have any limitations on its collaboration with Greece in this direction, except those which we took upon ourselves within the framework of international obligations. These concern weapons of mass destruction…Everything else is possible…[including] possible joint developments and production of weapon systems and special technology on Greek territory," concluding that Russia was “a very reliable partner” (ANN, December 18).

    The growing Athens-Moscow political nexus apparently will not be limited to energy and military cooperation. That Greece may well prove to be an interlocutor for Russian interests with the European Union seems evident in an exclusive interview Karamanlis gave Itar-Tass in Athens prior to his departure for Russia. He stated that Greece hopes for the earliest beginning of talks on concluding a new agreement between the European Union and Russia. Karamanlis said, "Relations between the two sides [Russia and the EU] are at a very high level thanks to the cooperation they are developing and the dialogue held between them on various bilateral and international issues. Despite this I believe there are major possibilities for the improvement of our cooperation. Especially if we assess the political events of recent years that have allowed the EU and Russia to attain rapprochement on issues of principles and interests, as well as the fact that there are international problems linked with our region. Then it is obvious that the necessity of further dialogue and coordination of activities becomes more imperative and urgent" (Itar-Tass, December 17).

    For the last seven years Washington has failed to address the Greek-Turkish dispute within the larger context of either its relationship with its NATO “southern tier” allies or Russia’s relations with the EU. South Stream and the Burgas-Alexandroupolis oil pipeline represent sophisticated maneuvers by Moscow to expand its influence in southern Europe by diminishing Washington’s influence there. In fact, it neatly cuts Turkey out of the transit equation, while the Burgas-Alexandroupolis pipeline ostensibly addresses Ankara’s environmental concerns over the Turkish Straits. If Washington is to halt or reverse its declining influence with its southern European NATO allies, then some new thinking is needed – and the sooner the better.

    RUSSIA WANTS TO SELL GREECE WEAPONS AS WELL AS GAS - Eurasia Daily Monitor
    This is an interesting development that is most unusual.

    It is extraordinary that a NATO country is opting for Russia equipment. Since the article does not mention the type of weapons, one cannot analyse the effect in interoperability of such equipment with standard NATO weapons systems. However, there is no doubt that it will have some effect.

    This military equipment deal is another nail in the coffin of the NATO or so it appears!

    It is also interesting to note how Russia is slowly emasculating the European unity by making Europe dependent on Russia gas, which is a weapon to control, to some extent, the European decisions.

    One wonders if the world equations are up for the grabs with Nations more concerned with their own interest rather than having a common security (economic, fiscal and military) equation!


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

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    Greece has already bought Tor M1 tac-SAMs.

    ''The Greek army fielded 21 Tor M-1 systems.''

    Tor M1 9M330 Air Defense System

    ''It has also undertaken to complete the linking of the TOR-M1s with the country's Unified Air Defense System and make the system compatible with the S-300 PMU-1 system over a period of six months.''

    People's Daily Online -- Greece, Russia sign amended contract for TOR-M1 missiles

    Tor-M1 / 9K331 SA-15 Gauntlet Tor M-1


    So it would hardly be a first. Also note the agreement to make them compatible with the PMU1s? systems? That's a good indicator of future contracts.

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    Greece is buying some hundreds of BMP-3 -s , for probably 2 reasons - Cyprus operates them and secondly - it´s probably the cheapest IFV out there , they´re other options were some time back used M2 Bradleys and old German Marders . And it can swim , probably important for them .
    Greece already has ~500 old ex-German BMP-1´s .
    If i only was so smart yesterday as my wife is today

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    Quote Originally Posted by braindead View Post
    Greece is buying some hundreds of BMP-3 -s , for probably 2 reasons - Cyprus operates them and secondly - it´s probably the cheapest IFV out there , they´re other options were some time back used M2 Bradleys and old German Marders . And it can swim , probably important for them .
    Greece already has ~500 old ex-German BMP-1´s .
    I'm starting to get the impression that everyone is going to have BMP-3s, except the Russian Army. UAE has 450, Greece another 300 on order, Cyprus, Indonesia, South Korea, and Kuwait.

    I'm also at a loss trying to find a reliable figure for just how many we have in service.... :*(

    Wiki says 800 - BMP-3 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Army Technology says 120 - Army Technology - BMP 3 - Tracked Infantry Combat Vehicle
    Warfare.ur says 122 active - BMP-3 | Russian Arms, Military Technology, Analysis of Russia's Military Forces

    And finally MDB mentions a potential additional 40 vehicles ordered in 2007, if 2006 production levels are kept up.

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    Arzi Hukumat-e-Azad Hind Senior Contributor Tronic's Avatar
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    Well, lets just hope that the Russian defense industry now pays more attention to quality, especially since it comes down to penetrating traditional western arms markets.
    Nabha Sparasham Deeptam
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    So the greeks are ready to put down their bows n arrows and swords, and use actual upto date weapons? What will they do with all the horses if they receive gas for imported cars? )

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    Senior Contributor smilingassassin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobbme View Post
    So the greeks are ready to put down their bows n arrows and swords, and use actual upto date weapons? What will they do with all the horses if they receive gas for imported cars? )
    Acctually they have quite a nice array of weapons, from quite a few different countrys, Mostly U.S., German and Russian equipment. They just suffer from the same image problem our military in Canada does.
    Facts to a liberal is like Kryptonite to Superman.

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    Administrator Tarek Morgen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilingassassin View Post
    Acctually they have quite a nice array of weapons, from quite a few different countrys, Mostly U.S., German and Russian equipment. They just suffer from the same image problem our military in Canada does.
    An they have become quite bad and paying their bills in the last few years.
    uh I might be wrong


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    A guy I met from Turkey once told me, "Greece has the most beautiful women in the world. And that is it."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobbme View Post
    A guy I met from Turkey once told me, "Greece has the most beautiful women in the world. And that is it."
    He's a liar. Motherland holds that title

    As for the Greek Army they also use around 400 BMP-1s, and an unknown number of Osa tac-SAMs, and ZU-23-2 towed AA guns, all from the Soviet arsenals. So this really wouldn't be a first for them. Now they also use a lot of M113s, some Leos (both I and II) and even some M60s and M48s. So their equipment is fairly haphazard for a NATO army.

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    Senior Contributor smilingassassin's Avatar
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    It all comes down to personal tase I suppose, Some Hawiian/Chinese/Filippino women are hot to me, then again Russian women are smokin hot too....

    Haphazard is an understatement!
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    Senior Contributor smilingassassin's Avatar
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    Love those cannon comercials with Sharapova and her "talking" dog.

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    Ray
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    Quote Originally Posted by braindead View Post
    Greece is buying some hundreds of BMP-3 -s , for probably 2 reasons - Cyprus operates them and secondly - it´s probably the cheapest IFV out there , they´re other options were some time back used M2 Bradleys and old German Marders . And it can swim , probably important for them .
    Greece already has ~500 old ex-German BMP-1´s .
    And the BMP 3 is really good!


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

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    Field mechanik Senior Contributor omon's Avatar
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    how come almost none of famous hot chics, have real dogs, i mean 50+lb, all have tiny Chihuahua, or Pomeranian, or yorkie,

    how do you call a smart blonde, a golden retriver.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin

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