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Reply With QuoteActually the thread on Skyscrapercity was not so bad . 1 anti-US/UK greek living in London (?) and 1 troll . Both posters statements were corrected quickly and the 1 anti-american caricature came from a russian ..
I love your attitude - I really do.Originally Posted by glyn
Ha ha. Pay no attention to that nonsense. Firstly, the Greeks kicked the British out of Athens? Er, no actually. The Brits went to the aid of Greece when it was invaded by the Italians. When the Germans piled in to assist their allies the Brits had to withdraw. They came back at the end of the war though, and even beyond, assisting the Greek government in the civil war when the local communists were being beastly. Secondly, the Greeks never kicked the Brits out of Cyprus. The UK was shedding its colonies under pressure from the USA and as the Greek Terrorists had been subdued the UK negotiated the Soverign Base Areas. Later of course the Turks invaded the northern part of Cyprus (which was where the majority of the Turkish Cypriots resided.) The UN became involved, keeping the Greeks and the Turks apart (as the Brits had done during the EOKA crisis). It appears the US has leased a base on Crete. Big deal. It should be remembered that the US, UK, Greece and Turkey are all members of NATO. It is to the mutual benefit of all concerned.
John, you can't tell me you are impressed with the sort of guff you are finding on the internet forums you have been trawling? Stay on WAB and you need not search out too many others.I like skyscrapers and architecture so I am visiting this forum because of that. It is not just Greeks - trust me it is Italians, Germans, Dutch, Spanish and even Hungarians. With the exception of UK and Ireland it is pretty much the same. It makes me upset very much, but lately I don't even argue anymore - no point. As much as I want to stay on WAB all the time - in order to have good information you should analyze it from as many sources as you can - so this is precisely why I am doing it.
"We Shall Never Surrender" Winston Churchill
Actually the thread on Skyscrapercity was not so bad . 1 anti-US/UK greek living in London (?) and 1 troll . Both posters statements were corrected quickly and the 1 anti-american caricature came from a russian .
If i only was so smart yesterday as my wife is today
Minding your own biz is great virtue, but situation awareness saves lives - Dok
Polybius: You could have saved yourself an awful lot of time by saying "OH BROWN PPL OUTBREEDING US LOLZ."
Will you ever stop strawmanning? I remind you that you are the self-advertised political science major. Act like it.
HD Ready?
QUESTIOn:Does your nation have an American/ British base and how does it make you feel?
aNSWER: COLATERAL DAMAGE.
Please keep your remarks to yourself. OK?
Last edited by JohnFlint1985; 11 Dec 07, at 23:28.
"We Shall Never Surrender" Winston Churchill
Maybe we should get sir Ray and Tronic to introduce Kama Sutra to em
All Cadillacs, Denali and Lincoln NavigatorsCan I get a HIp Hip Hooray for being North American!
Rawr kill the foul undead. If necroposting was infectuous, this forum would face an average of one zombie apocalypse per month.
I think the US will keep NATO alive so that it can use the term COALITION forces instead of US forces the next time it goes to war, starting with Iran presumably.
LOL
Not my fault I joined in late :P
A Better Way To Grow NATO
Ron Asmus was the Deputy Asst. SecState for Euro Affairs during some of the early expansion battles of the Clinton Admin and shares his thoughts on American endorsement of an expanded NATO at the summit later this spring.
"NATO enlargement must strengthen the alliance. That is why in the 1990s, in close consultation with the Senate, we set clear and high criteria for future members. By those criteria, perhaps one of the candidates under discussion -- Croatia -- is ready for membership. Albania and Macedonia clearly are not. We learned over the past decade that our leverage in pressing candidate countries to complete reforms falls considerably once these countries join. We need them to get as much reform done as possible beforehand. Thus, new members must meet the criteria before receiving an invite, lest enlargement weaken the alliance.
The other benchmark set in the 1990s was that enlargement had to advance NATO's strategic interests and stability in Europe. Enlargement today could address two key strategic issues: One is to stabilize the Balkans. The other is to reach out to new democracies in Georgia and Ukraine and keep NATO's door open to them."
Asmus examines the liklihood of the Bush administration adhering to two (actually three) benchmarks- alliance strengthening, advancing NATO's strategic interests, and promoting stability within Europe-for expansion.
"This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
"The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs
And that should be the real concern for the US, why should Americans subsidize the E.U.'s military and go deeper and deeper into debt making the Dollar weaker against the Euro. This isn't 1946, Europe is all grown up and if push comes to shove Europe could defend itself against a conventional force, with minimal over the horizon support from the US. In all honesty, NATO is a relic of a by-gone era and should sink into the annals of history like a lead brick in water.
It's the economy... we may see increasing birthrates in a few years if the Russian Economy can maintain its growth. It wasn't until 2007 that the Russian GDP equaled levels before the 1991 Soviet Collapse.
What you call conservatism and I call conservatism are two different things, when protesters are violently assaulted by police because the city revoked their permit because the protest was un-PC, like in Brussels last year, that's not conservative that socialist authoritarianism. When a man can be imprisoned for holding controversial opinions that are un-PC that is not conservatism, that's liberal authoritarianism. Write me when there are massive reductions in social welfare in Europe, I might actually agree with you. When there is a politician in Europe espousing the ideas of Barry Goldwater, Ronald Reagan or even talking like Newt Gingrich, then I'll concede Europe is conservative. But until that day, "European Conservatism" is just a bunch of socialists who specialize in moralizing and want to reform immigration.Not really, I meant it is MORE VISIBLE in these two island nations, though that's because the Brits were the major foreign influence on the US and the Irish have massive links to America, both ethnically and socially.
I'm sorry, that's ridiculous, I have to stop you there:
Governments of Western Europe:
Germany - CDU/CSU with SPD propup, conservative in outlook.
Belgium - None yet! - in election 2007, far right nationalists Vlaams Belang and the Christian populist party CD+V made big gains at the expense of VLD and SP.A, French party MR overtook the Socialists as well.
Netherlands - CDU/PVVD/CU coaltion - Centrist in attitude, Atlanticistism is strong.
Luxembourg - CSU/LSAP coaltion, conservative by nature, pro European.
France - UMP, Conservative.
Switzerland - Ultra Nationalist SVP is the leader of the multi-party government.
Spain - PSOE, Social Democracy party, won on the back of opposition to Spanish participation in Iraq.
Italy - L'Unione pipped past the Casa Del Liberta (conservatives), but only by 1%.
Denmark - Centre right coalition supported/ by far right Danish People's party.
Ireland - Centrist Nationalists Fianna Fail lead a coaltion with the PDs (economic liberals, tax-cutters) and CG (Green party, leftist by attitude) - Overall government is Quite Conservative Socially with an enviromental tint.
Sweden - Right wing coalition.
Norway - Right Wing coalition.
Portugal - Socialist government.
UK - Labour in government, centrist at best, Conservatives on the bounce.
Finland - Centrist.
John, Does this sound like a continent in the grip of Socialism?
It's amazing the way on this board you can say "I hate socialists" and get a massive pat on the back by the croney club - Do some research!
Your attitude towards Europe is a collection of useless soundbites, If you infact did come to Europe, your not listening to what the people were saying.
Not true.
See list above - Socialism is virtually dead in Europe.
Don't assume to know the mind of the European public - opposition is rife, thence the Europhiles unwillingness to give the people a say....that will bite them in the Arse, trust me.
Ireland WILL be holding a referedum however (we have a law, no changes to the constitution that aren't approved by the public) - I think that the result will be a No, will that please you?
"Rival, Competitor" - Is there something wrong with nations competing in the Free Market
The fact that you used the words "Contributor" and "Cooperator" highlight the way you view Europe in general - why not the terms "Ally" or "Partner"?
You fear a resurgent Europe, thence the American attitude....that's the only conclusion I can draw, why the restless suspicion of things that have nothing to do with you or indeed are a threat to you otherwise?
That's truly ridiculous, I live in a nation that uses the Euro, and we hate the effing thing, prices are ridiculous and we have little say over interest rates..............And guess what, the rest of Europe is thinking the exact same thing
I have to agree with you here. Europeans are basically very centrist - the only parties you can call of Right or Left are unelectable because they are constantly pelted with negative publicity from the establishment media.
In Britain we have two Right wing parties: the UK Independence Party and the British National Party. These parties want the UK to leave the European Union and become much more independent in foreign policy, as well as enforcing much harsher law and order and getting rid of illegal aliens etc. The hostility towards these parties from what should be an impartial media is incredible! The three main parties in Britain, Labour, Liberal Democrats and Conservatives, are all centrist. There are some slight differences in economic policy, but they all broadly agree on social and foreign policy issues.
It's no different in other European countries. There is a 'dictatorship of the Centre' in European politics.
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